Housing: Seasonal rentals, AirBNB and leases

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Pinga

Pinga

Room for All
@BetteTheRed , @paradox3 , @Kimmio

Brought this topic over, as I think it is an interesting one.


One of our members has advised that they need to find new housing as their house is rented as an AirBnb for the summer.
There was dialogue on this topic which I thought would be interesting to explore further.
 
Thirty years ago, I had a friend who moved from Cambridge to Port Elgin (a touristy town in Ontario).
She rented a cottage very inexpensively from fall to spring, basically paid for the heat and that was all.
She lived on her boat in the summer.
She was happy, it was a great way to live, and she saved a bunch of money.

I saw in the discussion re the people that AirBnB was a problem due to people having to move out during high season as people made money off the summer rentals.

Curious. Why is it bad? If you go in with your eyes open that it is seasonal, and you plan for that....is it really a problem.
Another example of lower cost accomodation is summer renting of university campus accomodations. Tend to be great deals as their high volume is in the fall winter.
 
Pinga said:
I saw in the discussion re the people that AirBnB was a problem due to people having to move out during high season as people made money off the summer rentals.

Curious. Why is it bad?
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We already have major cities struggling with shortages of rental housing and corresponding high rents. You don't think it's a problem that the supply is being further reduced on a seasonal basis and tenants are being forced out on to that reduced, higher priced market on the same seasonal basis? And it's not like it's the rich guys in their luxury condos or apartments that are being affected. It's mostly people renting a room in a house or a basement apartment on the cheap that are going to be affected. How do you figure out your rental needs for a year and maintain a permanent address for mail and such when you have to move around on a seasonal basis?

University student residences are a different beast because on many campuses they are largely not used in the summer anyhow due to students going home, moving off-campus, going away on co-op jobs, etc. Little M's residence isn't air conditioned so they close it in the summer (he's looking at a sublet in another building for the summer if he stays in the capital). You are taking advantage of a population that is already transient, not creating a new transient population.
 
Alternatively, people put in new accommodations they can rent, and offer them out off season.

I know retirees that move location for part of the year. This would be a great scenario. Live in town in low season. Head out for summer.

What it isn't good for is those who want to stay on one place all year. I know folks though who do not desire that
 
There are entire condo buildings in Toronto that are Air BNB’s. That displaces thousands of potential annual renters and creates housing shortages. The weekend renters are doing it to pay less than a hotel but that is because hotels have things like wage rules, taxes, health and safety conditions.......

There was a recent story about a guy who is the only permanent resident in his entire building. Every other place is overnight stays or whatever. Wear and tear in the building from people who have no vested interest in keeping it tidy is certainly an issue

a Toronto condo building voted against rules limiting rentals to monthly as 75% of the owners were absentee landlords

I think people like to think that most rentals are couples renting out an Extra bedroom occasionally but reality is different

Also recently was an article about people who own rental property, rent it via year long lease and then find it on VRBO or whatever for daily rates
 
Pinga said:
Alternatively, people put in new accommodations they can rent, and offer them out off season.

I know retirees that move location for part of the year. This would be a great scenario. Live in town in low season. Head out for summer.

What it isn't good for is those who want to stay on one place all year. I know folks though who do not desire that
Click to expand...

The problem right now, though, isn't transitional populations like snowbirds not finding their seasonal accommodations. It's people like Kimmio who need a permanent address finding that rents are rising due to lack of supply and that low-cost housing options are being transitioned to seasonal (as happened to her). AirBnB isn't solving that problem, it is contributing to it. There are few cities that have a shortage of temporary and seasonal accommodations save if some big event like the Olympics comes to town.
 
Lastpointe said:
a Toronto condo building voted against rules limiting rentals to monthly as 75% of the owners were absentee landlords
Click to expand...

We spent our first year after moving back to London in a rented two bedroom condo while our present house was under construction. The owner was a dental surgeon (my wife had actually had work done in a clinic he co-owned years before) who lived in a gorgeous house overlooking the river but owned two or three units in that building as investments. No idea what percentage of the units in the building were rented, though.
 
Depends how it's being done. Lots of it violates rules, and sometimes you get renters doing it too, where the owner is unaware.

Works well for people who want to rent out their living space while away if they own, or people who just like to host if they have an extra room. Ditto for things like residences in the summer, or in areas where hotels lack (although I think taxes should be paid like hotels).

When housing is tight though and doing it just because one can charge higher rates short term? It certainly has a negative effect on some.
 
crazyheart said:
AirBNB - not familiar. what does it stand for?
Click to expand...

Air Bed & Breakfast. It is an app that basically allows anyone to list a property for short term rental and then enables people looking for a place to stay to find those listings and book them. Kind of does for B&B what Uber does for cars.
 
In a lot of cases, people build or renovate nice suites for the purpose of airbnb so they were never previously offering low cost permanent rentals. They want to be airbnb hosts as a home based business and the off season longer term tenant is secondary.

On one level I understand if their idea was a business and now they are being relied on or possibly expected by government bylaw to provide year round reasonably priced housing on their nice property when that was not their intention. With airbnb in the summer they can block off a week or two, or whatever, when nobody is there and they can use it, as their own space, or go on vacation and not have to be around, etc. I think my landlords are planning to have their own family visit for some of the time.

On the other, it sucks for people like me, when vacancies are dangerously low (and costs exorbitantly high) as it is. But, in the off season it's awesome because it's a beautiful little space.
 
Your apartment looked really nice when you showed us pictures. Too bad the situation is so unstable for you.
 
My dtr was just talking about this issue today. She lives in Whistler. It is a town that has many transient workers in that they come from around the world to work and live and play in Whistler for a year or two, then often move on. Some like her, stay - she's up to 10 years now. Many earn relatively low wages. Many people in Whistler who own chalets also have suites in them which they would rent out as long term rentals to these folks - they liked having someone live in part of the building on a full time basis for security purposes and to defray some of their ownership costs. However, it is much more lucrative to now rent these suites on airbnb. This has created a severe housing shortage in Whistler for those who want to rent annually - it's extremely difficult to find affordable rental housing. As a consequence, that is creating a significant labour shortage for the town. It's also creating unsafe housing - there are a number of places now where people pack in to shared rooms, sometimes up to 8-14 people in a house never meant to house so many. It's a bad situation. How to regulate it becomes a big question.
 
I have a sense that some of that is happening in Tofino area, as well, carolla.

Curious where the balance is.
An individual wishes to earn more income with a house and property they own.
They enjoy it for part of a year, but, not all.

Is it a higher tax if renting weekly, rather than monthly?
 
In my experience as a "renter to people in my basement" - currently, a nice boy who happens to be my daughter's BF - all Revenue Canada cares about is your total rental income. I'd be guessing that if you weren't renting 52 weeks a year, you'd use a pro-rated amount of property tax, utilities, etc., as expenses, if you were doing it legit...
 
Pinga said:
I have a sense that some of that is happening in Tofino area, as well, carolla.

Curious where the balance is.
An individual wishes to earn more income with a house and property they own.
They enjoy it for part of a year, but, not all.

Is it a higher tax if renting weekly, rather than monthly?
Click to expand...

Another wyrd balance that has come up around here in recent years. What if you own a large-ish piece of property, at what used to be the edge of town? (And not the "right edge" of town, either.) You have made money on it for decades as a permanent "trailer park". Finally, you decide to sell the property - the City has expanded, it's no longer the "wrong side of town" to the same degree. But you're making a lot of people homeless.
 
conversely, you made an area for people to live for years; however, you do not have a requirement to care for them until the end of days.
If there is that requirement, the city should have bought the land and made it into a trailer park.
 
I've been looking for suites for rent...the problem is I don't know if I can manage to move and be in a new place on my own until my knee heals, so as to ensure it heals. It's still up in the air, so to speak. As long as I'm renting here, things seem to be okay for the short term.

There are a couple of adequate (in price and upkeep) long term suites available - only a couple of them , though! They are okay. People here generally have nice gardens and home exteriors, it's a pretty town, but the interiors of suites for rent are just adequate, put together on the cheap. It seems that anything as nice as where I was (was tiny but nearly brand new renovation, modern, bright) is nearly twice the price - and they're all furnished. So, I'm guessing what's happening is that now that they are bringing in new airbnb bylaws and taxes, owners are just charging double to long term renters (instead of cheaper monthly rent in winter/ nightly rent to airbnb guests in summer - we pretty much have 2 seasons here). That doesn't really address the problem from this angle.:confused: It doesn't need to be fancy, but too dingy is disappointing. It'd be nice if they put a bit of effort into making lower cost rentals cheerier, not just meeting minimum standards. It doesn't have to cost much. (I actually thought some day it'd be a good idea to start a non profit service to help decorate low income people's homes, with tasteful second hand furniture and appliances, for free. It makes a difference to mood and confidence to live somewhere that feels "homey". I could do that. I'd love that. But first I need to find a place!)
 
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I have to say, the place I am sitting in right now would be more than adequate as housing for a small family, maybe a single parent with a kid or two. OTOH, it is making money for a family in its present role and how far should the government go in telling people how they can make money off of their property.
 
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