Death Ed

[revsdd]

When my daughter was a teenager she wanted to attend the funeral of a friend's father. As it happens, it was her first funeral. I received a very solid piece of advice from my minister which was to accompany my daughter to the funeral. My minister's reasoning was that first funerals are extremely formative.

The minister in question was She Who Will Not Be Named whom I have been known to criticize on other fronts. But I certainly appreciated her wise counsel on this occasion.

"She Who Will Not Be Named." Oh come on, paradox3. I'm trying to write my Easter sermon. This is a break for me every now and then, and you're leaving me with these cryptic words to puzzle out. I won't be able to concentrate on Easter anymore. Who is "She Who Will Not Be Named"? I have no clue. This will be bugging me for the rest of the day now. Forget Easter. You've really ruined my sermon writing with this mystery. I hope you're proud.

 

[paradox3]

@revsdd

 

[Jae]

We had Dad's fairly quickly but we also didn't have much to do. He had preplanned a lot of it.

My Dad did too. His was a wake that took place at his favorite watering hole The Moncton Dart Club, I presided over the broken wand ceremony.

 

[GordW]

Yes, a very complex subject.

I have noticed an increasing tendency for families to omit having a funeral. As cremation is becoming more prevalent many seem to assume this does away with the need for any kind of observance.

When my mother-in-law passed away nothing took place until a few months later when we basically had a family party. I was most troubled by this as were a few other family members. We are all identified as the "religious" ones but I would have been almost as happy with a secular celebration.

The family gathering was something, at least, and it did seem to satisfy all the young ones (the grandchildren). I think expectations are changing at least in this part of the country.

indeed, more and more you see the line "at request of the deceased there will e no service" in obituaries. THis is a mistake IMO. HEalthy grieving is facilitated by a gathering to share stories and to share grief.

 

[Mendalla]

indeed, more and more you see the line "at request of the deceased there will e no service" in obituaries. THis is a mistake IMO. HEalthy grieving is facilitated by a gathering to share stories and to share grief.

Like the dead guy should have a say. I suppose that's the ultimate in pre-planning, but hardly fair to survivors who might want something. And it probably isn't legally binding either.

I have not preplanned anything so Mrs. M is welcome to do whatever she likes/wants/needs unless I eventually do so. I probably should put a few basic guidelines down. Readings and music that would be appropriate and stuff like that.

 

[revsdd]

Like the dead guy should have a say. I suppose that's the ultimate in pre-planning, but hardly fair to survivors who might want something. And it probably isn't legally binding either.

I have not preplanned anything so Mrs. M is welcome to do whatever she likes/wants/needs unless I eventually do so. I probably should put a few basic guidelines down. Readings and music that would be appropriate and stuff like that.

It's not legally binding. One thing I've learned from funeral directors is that you can do all the pre-planning you want, but once you die everything is in the hands of your executor (who may or may not be your next of kin) who can change any plans you've made.

I agree that the funeral service is for the living and not the dead, so when I meet with families to plan funerals I always tell them that the question they need to ask is not what the deceased would have wanted, but is rather what they need to help them move on.

I also find that a lot of people are now wanting to have small and brief grave-side services for family only.

 

[Carolla]

And I guess those very important observances after death would/could be part of a death ed curriculum, with some interesting cultural (not actively religious) differences in tradition woven into the discussion.

Seems many of us here did not encounter much death ed/support within our own families and believe it has the potential to be a helpful. Will be an interesting topic to follow IMO.

 

[paradox3]

I agree that the funeral service is for the living and not the dead, so when I meet with families to plan funerals I always tell them that the question they need to ask is not what the deceased would have wanted, but is rather what they need to help them move on.

Good advice but I can see how family members get caught in a bind. They want to honour their loved one's wishes yet they need to do what is best for themselves and each other.

It is a good thing if families can hash this all out ahead of time but it is such a difficult conversation to have.

 

[GordW]

Good advice but I can see how family members get caught in a bind. They want to honour their loved one's wishes yet they need to do what is best for themselves and each other.

It is a good thing if families can hash this all out ahead of time but it is such a difficult conversation to have.

ANd most important...have the discussion with ALL your children, not just the one you communicate with the best. Same goes for things like wishes/intentions.desires around when to stop providing medical care.

 

[Jae]

ANd most important...have the discussion with ALL your children, not just the one you communicate with the best. Same goes for things like wishes/intentions.desires around when to stop providing medical care.

Should read: "...if they should ever stop providing medical care."

 

[Carolla]

Should read: "...if they should ever stop providing medical care."

that wording may work for you in your circumstances - others may have different preferences jae.

 

[chansen]

Should read: "...if they should ever stop providing medical care."

Nope. Gord got it right. If your desire is that every heroic action be taken no matter what the prognosis for recovery or the suffering involved for limited recovery or time, then the "when" is "never".

Whereas I'm sure that if I'm older and my daughter gets power of attorney over me, she'll be asking how quickly they can pull the plug.

"There! He coughed! How about now?"

 

[chansen]

Adults need to learn this one, too. "S/he's in a better place" or "S/he's with God" is only comforting if the bereaved person actually believes that.

Those had her so anti-Christian for a while. I had to talk her down from that position. Let that one sink in.

 

[Jae]

that wording may work for you in your circumstances - others may have different preferences jae.

"When" suggests that there will come a time. The operative word must be "if."

 

[chansen]

Still no. Most people want to have a say about when life-sustaining procedures and tools are to be put away. They understand there is a law of diminishing returns and that at some point, they don't want to delay the inevitable at the expense of their own suffering. And if they wish to fight on, then the answer is to never withhold treatment.

Gord's line was more correct than your proposed correction, and it doesn't preclude the option you're promoting. You're just being an idiot for sport again.

 

[Mendalla]

"When" suggests that there will come a time. The operative word must be "if."

"IF" only comes into play if one dies in a way that doesn't require hospitalization or life support. Dying peacefully with minimal medical issues in your sleep like my 91 year-old grandmother-in-law did a few years back. Dying at the scene after a disaster or crime of some kind. That sort of thing.

For the many of us who will not go that way, who will go down from some kind of health-related cause of death (cancer, heart disease, stroke, dementia, etc.) or from injuries that weren't immediately fatal, the odds of ending up in a ward on life support are pretty good. And then it's a "when", not an "if".

 

[Carolla]

And to go back to the original article & the ICU doctor who was being interviewed - death ed would help us all to be much more realistic about the parameters of 'life support' measures. It's not like on TV - trust me. CPR is painful - ribs are broken, especially in elderly people; it takes a long time to recover from; some survive well, others with significant brain damage. Life support is not always part of the proposed plan of care either - for example when terminal phase of illness is reached - so again, not like TV. Being able to understand these things, on the basis of education at a time when one is NOT in crisis, is so important, and makes dealing with eventual death an easier thing.

 

[Mendalla]

May I just comment that this is the sort of thread we should be having around here.

 

[chansen]

May I just comment that this is the sort of thread we should be having around here.

Let's not get off topic.

 

[Jae]

"IF" only comes into play if one dies in a way that doesn't require hospitalization or life support. Dying peacefully with minimal medical issues in your sleep like my 91 year-old grandmother-in-law did a few years back. Dying at the scene after a disaster or crime of some kind. That sort of thing.

For the many of us who will not go that way, who will go down from some kind of health-related cause of death (cancer, heart disease, stroke, dementia, etc.) or from injuries that weren't immediately fatal, the odds of ending up in a ward on life support are pretty good. And then it's a "when", not an "if".

The way Gordon worded it says that for everyone there must come a "when" - a time after which they will no longer receive medical care. This is utter nonsense. Some of us want to be kept alive at all cost. The proper operative word is "if."