Death Ed

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Waterfall said:
When my mother died, I was 17. After the funeral there wasn't a lot of talking about it at home. Possibly my father didn't know how to approach it on a more personal level and he was grieving himself.
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Ditto for me after a family tragedy which happened when I was 12.
 
paradox3 said:
Ditto for me after a family tragedy which happened when I was 12.
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I was a bit older than that, maybe 16 or 17, when my Mom's brother basically dropped dead on Christmas Eve. While we were at his place after Christmas Eve service. Mom swore she'd never enjoy Christmas again but that kind of mellowed, I think. We had also lost my paternal grandmother not long before but that was expected given her health.
 
During my childhood a small number of relatives died including a grandmother and my favorite uncle. My parents lovingly talked with us kids about what had happened, and we attended the funerals. There was no need for tax-funded Death Ed.
 
Jae, why do you assume the universality of your personal experience? I hear a lot from you along the lines of "well, we do/did it this way and it works for us". That's nice, dear, but it's anecdotal, and not universal. Children with parents who cannot talk rationally about death need education about it. "Public education" means that children get, through the state, a well-rounded education, so that they can make well informed decisions as adults. There should not be taboo topics.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Jae, why do you assume the universality of your personal experience? I hear a lot from you along the lines of "well, we do/did it this way and it works for us". That's nice, dear, but it's anecdotal, and not universal. Children with parents who cannot talk rationally about death need education about it. "Public education" means that children get, through the state, a well-rounded education, so that they can make well informed decisions as adults. There should not be taboo topics.
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Bette, being a 4th-year seminary student, I've studied a little about what people are like in the world in which we live. I realize that not everyone has the same experiences. That said, I see no reason why all parents can't take it upon themselves to lovingly speak with their children about death.

Some parents may be currently failing to speak with their children about such important topics as death, but that doesn't mean that they don't have the potential to.

What I'd rather see in schools is Life Ed - education on how to live your life well.
 
Jae said:
Sex shouldn't be a regular part of life for high school students.
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This is (I believe) a DELIBERATE misreading of what the OP said. Sexuality is definitely a regular part of life for ALL people at any age, that may or may not mean the activity commonly referred to as "sex". Besides the OP never said anything about teens engaging in sexual activity (though a certain percentage definitely do) any more than it talked about teens dying (though a certain percentage do). The point of the discussion is that these are both areas of life that we, as a society, need to provide information and guidance on so that our children and teens can process them. We have found that sexuality education is a good way to help that happen, therefore is discussing death also a valid part of our educational system?
 
GordW said:
This is (I believe) a DELIBERATE misreading of what the OP said. Sexuality is definitely a regular part of life for ALL people at any age, that may or may not mean the activity commonly referred to as "sex". Besides the OP never said anything about teens engaging in sexual activity (though a certain percentage definitely do) any more than it talked about teens dying (though a certain percentage do). The point of the discussion is that these are both areas of life that we, as a society, need to provide information and guidance on so that our children and teens can process them. We have found that sexuality education is a good way to help that happen, therefore is discussing death also a valid part of our educational system?
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The OP said, "Since death is as much a part of life as sex is, and we have sex ed with positive effects..." She specifically mentioned "sex" Gord. "Sex," not "sexuality." No cigar for you.
 
Mendalla said:
Know what? I like this idea. A lot. And I'd include units on death and sex if I was developing it, because those are part of life and living life well means dealing with them well.
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One of the dis-services that have been done to many young people is the isolating them from death. In some families there is an assumption that children should not atend funerals "because it is too hard on them". in the end I findthis unhelpful, because it increases the chance that the first funeral they attend will indeed be highly traumatic (it is one thing to attend the funeral of an elderly relative or family friend and learn about funerals that way. It is a whole other thing to have your first funeral be the high school classmate who develops meningitis Fruday after school and is dead by the end of the weekend (as was my sister's first funeral)
 
GordW said:
One of the dis-services that have been done to many young people is the isolating them from death. In some families there is an assumption that children should not atend funerals "because it is too hard on them". in the end I findthis unhelpful, because it increases the chance that the first funeral they attend will indeed be highly traumatic (it is one thing to attend the funeral of an elderly relative or family friend and learn about funerals that way. It is a whole other thing to have your first funeral be the high school classmate who develops meningitis Fruday after school and is dead by the end of the weekend (as was my sister's first funeral)
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Little M has been to several funerals and visitations already at 18. His "grandma" (really a good friend who acted as a surrogate grandmother since my mother was long gone when he was born and Mrs. M's mother lives too far away), his grade 8 teacher's husband (several of the kids went to the visitation as a group), my father. Whereas my first was probably my grandmother at maybe 14 or 15 (have to check the family tree to be sure).
 
GordW said:
One of the dis-services that have been done to many young people is the isolating them from death. In some families there is an assumption that children should not atend funerals "because it is too hard on them". in the end I findthis unhelpful, because it increases the chance that the first funeral they attend will indeed be highly traumatic (it is one thing to attend the funeral of an elderly relative or family friend and learn about funerals that way.
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In agreement with this. Children participate in the journey of life with us. They should be included in most of life's experiences - including funerals, weddings, hospital visitations, birthings, etc.
 
I was not aware how profoundly Carter's death would affect Claire. She has been on a journey of healing and coming to terms with what happened and why. She understands the mechanics of why he died better now. She also has learned tools to help her cope when the pain of the loss becomes acute again.

Her classmates just do not understand. Part of you is happy they don't. But there are lessons in empathy to be learned and questons they have that deserve answers from someone other than my daughter, who became a curiosity figure as "the girl whose brother died," as she was known in the hallways for a while.

Then there was the insistences from some kids about where her brother was now, which were not helpful at all.

Kids need some perspective on this. They could use some guidance on how to deal with death, and answers to their questions at a time and place that are more appropriate than aimed at a newly grieving sibling in the hallway.
 
Mendalla said:
Adults need to learn this one, too. "S/he's in a better place" or "S/he's with God" is only comforting if the bereaved person actually believes that.
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It's actually rather inappropriate to share that soon after the death even if the person does believe that. It sounds incredibly tacky. After the Youth Pastor of the church I was Intern Pastor at passed away in an accident, my Senior Pastor asked me to go on Fb and delete any such messages people might post.
 
GordW said:
One of the dis-services that have been done to many young people is the isolating them from death. In some families there is an assumption that children should not atend funerals "because it is too hard on them". in the end I findthis unhelpful, because it increases the chance that the first funeral they attend will indeed be highly traumatic (it is one thing to attend the funeral of an elderly relative or family friend and learn about funerals that way. It is a whole other thing to have your first funeral be the high school classmate who develops meningitis Fruday after school and is dead by the end of the weekend (as was my sister's first funeral)
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When my daughter was a teenager she wanted to attend the funeral of a friend's father. As it happens, it was her first funeral. I received a very solid piece of advice from my minister which was to accompany my daughter to the funeral. My minister's reasoning was that first funerals are extremely formative.

The minister in question was She Who Will Not Be Named whom I have been known to criticize on other fronts. But I certainly appreciated her wise counsel on this occasion.
 
Such a complex subject. I suppose one could buy into the belief that all parents can and will talk in suitable ways to their children about death and dying. As noted before, my parents didn't. I was not allowed to attend the funerals of people wo were part of my life. I was shutdown if I brought a conversation forward as a possibility. Before I left school at 15 I had known quite a few deaths - none of which were discussed in any way. The neighbour boy, various aunts and uncles, the classmate, the child I knew who was hit by a car......... Claiming that this is purely a parental job leaves the kids like me with no support at all.

The first funeral I attended was my M-I-L's . Not only did I attend, I had a prime role in organising it while dealing with my grief struck partner and our four upset kids between 5 and 10. Let me tell you - that was extremely stressful and challenging! Probably not as challenging as Chansen and Claire's grief journey though. YES - those classmates do need a chance to ask questions and get answers to think about. No - I'm not a fount of wisdom on how this could be done as part of the curriculum. I suspect there isn't a way to protect people from those unhelpful comments that people make. My grandude was told that he shouldn't be sad because God loved his daddy so much that he wanted him with him up in heaven.

Eventually I realised that some of my childhood behaviour had been grief related and I worked my way through that.
 
Yes, a very complex subject.

I have noticed an increasing tendency for families to omit having a funeral. As cremation is becoming more prevalent many seem to assume this does away with the need for any kind of observance.

When my mother-in-law passed away nothing took place until a few months later when we basically had a family party. I was most troubled by this as were a few other family members. We are all identified as the "religious" ones but I would have been almost as happy with a secular celebration.

The family gathering was something, at least, and it did seem to satisfy all the young ones (the grandchildren). I think expectations are changing at least in this part of the country.
 
paradox3 said:
Yes, a very complex subject.

I have noticed an increasing tendency for families to omit having a funeral. As cremation is becoming more prevalent many seem to assume this does away with the need for any kind of observance.

When my mother-in-law passed away nothing took place until a few months later when we basically had a family party. I was most troubled by this as were a few other family members. We are all identified as the "religious" ones but I would have been almost as happy with a secular celebration.

The family gathering was something, at least, and it did seem to satisfy all the young ones (the grandchildren). I think expectations are changing at least in this part of the country.
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I have noticed with the passing of some of the older members of the UU fellowship, that there was more of a gap between death and memorial (we rarely do traditional funerals) than I am used to. In some cases, it may have been due to holding off until absent friends and family could return, but I also think that once you no longer have a need to have the body present (are doing a memorial rather than a traditional funeral), the urgency to have it soon after the passing goes away. We had Dad's fairly quickly but we also didn't have much to do. He had preplanned a lot of it.
 
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