The numbing down of the populace is critical to some goals!
Myth and Fiction Are Not the Same
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The numbing down of the populace is critical to some goals!
revjohn
Well-Known Member
GeoFee said:
We are no longer in the beginning.
GeoFee said:
Capitalization is relatively new to writing. Depending on whose writing we are considering. Just like the F and the J are recent literary inventions.
GeoFee said:
I expect Plato's beef is more about understanding completely because of text rather than understanding something because of the text. Written expression and verbal expression can only communicate so much they can never exhaust thinking around any particular subject. What we can understand, with respect to the convention of capitalization, is what was intending to be communicated even if those attempting to communicate could not do so perfectly or those who are on the receiving end would not comprehend fully.
GeoFee said:
Plato and I part ways a bit at this point. If one is going to rely upon the text and conventions that involve text one is going to have to remember what those conventions are and what they point to. Those who do not understand the difference between the word of God and the Word of God have forgotten something that was meant to be remembered simply because it communicated something different.
In oral communication, I don't have the means of capitalizing the words I speak so I rely on verbal conventions. Folk who don't pay attention to those will miss as much as those who fail to notice whether or not a written word has been capitalized or not.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
Will you agree that there is a great divide between speaking about the Word and speaking the Word? I gather this from Paul's observation that it is no longer I who lives but it is Christ in me. Where Christ lives at the heart of any human being, there the living Word is pronounced.
These are interesting digressions and I appreciate being prompted to thought.
Myth and fiction are two expressions of language as the house of being. Though raised a Calvinist Christian, I never met Christ until immersed in Dostoevsky's "The Idiot". My insights regarding sanctification were enlarged and strengthened by Mervin Peake's "Gormenghast Trilogy". The emergence of Titus alone offered insight and encouragement specific to my own spiritual development. Then there are the fantasy stories of George Macdonald.
Scripture notes Jesus' resort to parable as means to insight and encouragement. Stories told round the fire stand near the heart of many indigenous peoples. Among the elders memory traced back through many generations. Sad to say these diverse human oral cultures were resisted and oppressed by enlightened Europeans.
George
"The Disintegration of the Persistence of Memory" by Salvador Dali
Could it be that this is our misfortune? We once stood forth in the immediate presence of God. We were shaped to be custodians of God's very good creation. Some voice seduced us out of our true being and into the duality of good and evil. That duality being expressed in the history of humanity in all times and places. Thank God for the light shed by the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Word made manifest as human being. By that light we penetrate the darkness of the age; exposing its corruption and its trajectory of ruin. Saying such things I am not speaking of some abstraction. I am expressing the spirit of God at work in me. This by the gracious gift of faith.
Will you agree that there is a great divide between speaking about the Word and speaking the Word? I gather this from Paul's observation that it is no longer I who lives but it is Christ in me. Where Christ lives at the heart of any human being, there the living Word is pronounced.
These are interesting digressions and I appreciate being prompted to thought.
Myth and fiction are two expressions of language as the house of being. Though raised a Calvinist Christian, I never met Christ until immersed in Dostoevsky's "The Idiot". My insights regarding sanctification were enlarged and strengthened by Mervin Peake's "Gormenghast Trilogy". The emergence of Titus alone offered insight and encouragement specific to my own spiritual development. Then there are the fantasy stories of George Macdonald.
Scripture notes Jesus' resort to parable as means to insight and encouragement. Stories told round the fire stand near the heart of many indigenous peoples. Among the elders memory traced back through many generations. Sad to say these diverse human oral cultures were resisted and oppressed by enlightened Europeans.
George
"The Disintegration of the Persistence of Memory" by Salvador Dali
Thus littles baels of energy rising in the braen when the bode'n rests ... obscurely so the absolutes won't see it coming ...
What? The solution is thus occulted i.e. eclipsed by criminal passions ... or the other way about Ide ...
Some Canadian Neuro Frontiersman spoke of it with the homunculus with the big hands ... a little guise as not well observed ... with the exception of baring the sol ... an impossible thing?
Just for the fun of exploring the unseen ideal thingy ... occult gods?
And don't forget the shanghai'd amygdala ... missing brain parts in the lobe 've mote lyre ... lobotomy for short? It too is a deep thingy ... not generally as observed ... fat tissue out there when exposed!
More dissonance ... in the ordered realm beyond us ...
If nothing else it makes for good grounds for golem ... and other strange oral traditions about the screwing about and cranking of emotions ... this thought process could go on considerably in either direction .... up or downs!And don't forget the shanghai'd amygdala ... missing brain parts in the lobe 've mote lyre ... lobotomy for short? It too is a deep thingy ... not generally as observed ... fat tissue out there when exposed!
More dissonance ... in the ordered realm beyond us ...
As in the story/myth of leuce in another string ... don't cut up or go with asclepius ... when the double edges word is available from the sayrs of King James and Shakespearean creativity ...
We of the unorthodox are often denied and eliminated ... thus creating the out there to begin with ... always something to be heh jected ...
You did know that heh is the holy letter from Hebrew denoting space to escape too in imaginary terms sometimes described as abstract! It may be part of a restie sol ... thus one may learn what is to be bourn later ... the simple guilt complex?
It may be novelized and cause great myths of espionage ... that will drive GREAT men to insanities ... tis humbling to know of such undeling things as postings!
Some drift across the borderline condition of absolute and abstract may be expected as indeterminate to the determined ...
Sol is like that ... per plexus ... and per son if ication ... to know thyself ... is questionable!
Didn't get that far in the ET udes? Perhaps some poly anis may be prerequisite ...
Multiple concerns about word a para blues? Indigo blues ... whoosh or woo's ...
We of the unorthodox are often denied and eliminated ... thus creating the out there to begin with ... always something to be heh jected ...
You did know that heh is the holy letter from Hebrew denoting space to escape too in imaginary terms sometimes described as abstract! It may be part of a restie sol ... thus one may learn what is to be bourn later ... the simple guilt complex?
It may be novelized and cause great myths of espionage ... that will drive GREAT men to insanities ... tis humbling to know of such undeling things as postings!
Some drift across the borderline condition of absolute and abstract may be expected as indeterminate to the determined ...
Sol is like that ... per plexus ... and per son if ication ... to know thyself ... is questionable!
Didn't get that far in the ET udes? Perhaps some poly anis may be prerequisite ...
Multiple concerns about word a para blues? Indigo blues ... whoosh or woo's ...
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In naivete, ignorance and denial of minor things ... does the foundation deteriorate?
At least when ignored one can tell altruisms in a sacred state ... virtually undetected ...
Doesn't work for some people when in the spotlights ... stick to the Shadow ... even if the Shadow gets a bad name ... con science is not good for success ... once denying the sol ... is it gone for good? Perhaps when it comes around again and hit syah!
Phonetically in the oral sense how does "syah" come about? SAH min ized ...
At least when ignored one can tell altruisms in a sacred state ... virtually undetected ...
Doesn't work for some people when in the spotlights ... stick to the Shadow ... even if the Shadow gets a bad name ... con science is not good for success ... once denying the sol ... is it gone for good? Perhaps when it comes around again and hit syah!
Phonetically in the oral sense how does "syah" come about? SAH min ized ...
revjohn
Well-Known Member
GeoFee said:
I agree that it is part of our misfortune. One that the providential love of God will ultimately rectify.
In the meantime, since we cannot step into that same spot again, we need to pay more attention to where we are headed.
GeoFee said:
Is God not immediately present for us now? How have we absented God from our daily proceedings? I maintain God is immediately present though not greatly looked for or sought after. We still retain the custodial shape even if our execution of custodial duty sucks greatly.
GeoFee said:
Some voice? Looks more like a chorus and we each get our own solo time singing that tune.
GeoFee said:
Not sure about your valuation of the good and evil duality. Noticing that you appeal to the duality of light and darkness in an attempt to overcome it. I find that confusing strategy.
Working with what you present I am not sure that it is actually "we" who penetrate. The light penetrates, by the grace of that same light we see what was hidden in the dark that we thought was comfortable or comforting.
GeoFee said:
The Word speaks with the Word's own voice. The word speaks through us. Sometimes, with the Spirit's help we are more free flowing conduit than restrictive barrier.
Our speaking about the Word, the word, the word of the Word or even the word of the word is also shaped by the corruption present within us. If we are familiar with the true image and understand the funhouse reflection we can make connections which help to illuminate the true.
GeoFee said:
And yet Paul also speaks of doing the thing he does not want to do and not being able to do the good that he wants to do.
I think that there are complication and nuance here. A both/and rather than an either/or. At some point, I expect completion/perfection. I do not believe we are there yet. I do not doubt that Christ lives in you. I don't think that makes every utterance or writing of yours a necessary pronouncement of the living Word.
My responsibility is to listen so that I may discern what is Christ living in you from the older you which is still resistant to the living Word.
GeoFee said:
Thinking is a part of creation I am mindful of stewarding to the best of my ability. I am happy to have help along the way.
GeoFee said:
They are. Though they are not terms employed with great understanding among those who have not also taken opportunity for advanced studies. Which is why they are terms that result in much aggravation and opposition whenever they rise up in discussion touching on anything Biblical.
GeoFee said:
That is sad. Though as a one-time outsider to Calvinism I did not a tendency towards severity. I expect that an overarching tilt towards severity makes grace very difficult to embrace. My Scots Presbyterian heritage not so severe still leaned towards more dour outlook. Probably explains best my deep love for and comfort with lamentation. My family often failed to be dour. Guess we weren't the best Presbyterians by some standards.
I can scowl with the best and be stonefaced at will. For the most part it is an act and one that takes tremendous energy somedays to maintain.
I don't do dour at all well.
Harder with a puppy and a grandson underfoot.
I had met Christ before my return to Calvinism. The Doctrines of Grace help me to understand Christ somewhat better. Seeing how grace was structured and the cost to God for the grace poured out upon myself and others give me a deeper appreciation for a loving God and the Word at the Beginning which sets a path to a more beautiful ending.
GeoFee said:
Not familiar with Peake's work. Have read quite a bit of Macdonald (kind of a requirement for the Scots heritage) the early shaping was by Lewis and Tolkien who paint pictures of grace in glowing colours. Tolkein, in particular, brings me to tears regularly.
GeoFee said:
Which "enlightened" culture never thinks that their heavy-handed approach might not be the best for the brutes they are attempting to elevate? It is a repeating element here at WC2 as it was in WonderCafe.ca before it.
That said, I think there is too much wild within us that cannot be domesticated, refined and enlightened. We can share in all of it certainly and try to still the inner primitive. We still make up stories for our children and it is in those stories that the wild thrives and survives because it is able to touch inner places the enlightenment attempts to wall off.
The stories Christ told as well as the stories told of Christ pass through those walls because they also, are wild. Some conventions in our written expression exist at winks and nods to things too powerful for the enlightenment to box in.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
Hi,
Have missed these occasional chats. Appreciate that we have differing perspectives on our common being. Helps keep my own thinking in check, reminding me that I have not yet obtained maturity in the way of faith. Here, then, are my immediate responses to some of your thought.
Now out to shovel some snow.
George
Have missed these occasional chats. Appreciate that we have differing perspectives on our common being. Helps keep my own thinking in check, reminding me that I have not yet obtained maturity in the way of faith. Here, then, are my immediate responses to some of your thought.
It has been my conviction for some time that our journey out of God's presence is remedied only by our turning to return home. The prodigal son comes to mind. My vision and purpose are not oriented to the future. Rather, I am seeking to be increasingly present to the moment now at hand. This may be thought of as exiting Chronos to inhabit Kairos.
Agreement on this. God is here and now ready to embrace and accompany each who turns towards home. Sad to say, the majority have relegated God to the past and to the future. Failing to recognize the God is the present way, truth, and life. This brings forward the matter of sanctification; the persistent peeling away of all that hinders permitting the revelation of all that helps. This in contradiction to the notion some profess, that God will be met only after we die. For me, baptism signified my death to the way of this world and resurrection to the way revealed in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Agreement again. Not one of us has yet reached the goal or obtained the prize. Those who have counted the cost and taken up the responsibility are assured that persisting in the way of God will not bring disappointment.
Nor do I. I am quite certain that God is able to make use of even my shortcoming to speak in the experience of persons met along my appointed way.
Now out to shovel some snow.
George
Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
Literally every fictitious/mythical book/story every written/told, And I include the bible in that. Has some element of truth in it. it is impossible to separate the two. Myth and fiction are co-authors of the same stories. I'm loathed to understand this thread.
Pavlos Maros
Well-Known Member
Doubtful there is no contemporaneous information about a jesus person during his alleged lifetime. That is not to say that he never existed. Just there is nothing written.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
Mythology is the study of whatever religious or heroic legends are so foreign to a student's experience that he cannot believe them to be true. . . . Myth has two main functions. The first is to answer the sort of awkward questions that children ask, such as: 'Who made the world? How will it end? Who was the first man? Where do souls go after death?'. . . . The second function of myth is to justify an existing social system and account for traditional rites and customs. Robert Graves
We can keep from a child all knowledge of earlier myths, but we cannot take from him the need for mythology. Carl Jung
We can keep from a child all knowledge of earlier myths, but we cannot take from him the need for mythology. Carl Jung
unsafe
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting read -----read all --I just posted this part of the article
Religion and mythology
en.wikipedia.org
The roots of the popular meaning of "myth"[edit]
Especially within Christianity, objection to the word "myth" rests on a historical basis. By the time of Christ, the Greco-Roman world had started to use the term "myth" (Greek muthos) to mean "fable, fiction, lie"; as a result, the early Christian theologians used "myth" in this sense.[35] Thus, the derogatory meaning of the word "myth" is the traditional Christian meaning, and the expression "Christian mythology", as used in academic discourse,[36] may offend Christians for this reason.
In addition, this early Christian use of the term "myth" passed into popular usage.[37] Thus, when essential sacred mysteries and teachings are described as myth, in modern English, the word often still implies that it is "idle fancy, fiction, or falsehood".[36] This description could be taken as a direct attack on religious belief, quite contrary to the meaning ostensibly intended by the academic use of the term. Further, in academic writing, though "myth" usually means a fundamental worldview story, even there it is occasionally ambiguous or clearly denotes "falsehood", as in the "Christ myth theory". The original term "mythos" (which has no pejorative connotation in English) may be a better word to distinguish the positive definition from the negative.[36]
Non-opposition to categorizing sacred stories as myths[edit]
Modern day clergy and practitioners within some religious movements have no problem classifying the religion's sacred stories as "myths". They see the sacred texts as indeed containing religious truths, divinely inspired but delivered in the language of mankind.
Religion and mythology
Religion and mythology - Wikipedia
The roots of the popular meaning of "myth"[edit]
Especially within Christianity, objection to the word "myth" rests on a historical basis. By the time of Christ, the Greco-Roman world had started to use the term "myth" (Greek muthos) to mean "fable, fiction, lie"; as a result, the early Christian theologians used "myth" in this sense.[35] Thus, the derogatory meaning of the word "myth" is the traditional Christian meaning, and the expression "Christian mythology", as used in academic discourse,[36] may offend Christians for this reason.
In addition, this early Christian use of the term "myth" passed into popular usage.[37] Thus, when essential sacred mysteries and teachings are described as myth, in modern English, the word often still implies that it is "idle fancy, fiction, or falsehood".[36] This description could be taken as a direct attack on religious belief, quite contrary to the meaning ostensibly intended by the academic use of the term. Further, in academic writing, though "myth" usually means a fundamental worldview story, even there it is occasionally ambiguous or clearly denotes "falsehood", as in the "Christ myth theory". The original term "mythos" (which has no pejorative connotation in English) may be a better word to distinguish the positive definition from the negative.[36]
Non-opposition to categorizing sacred stories as myths[edit]
Modern day clergy and practitioners within some religious movements have no problem classifying the religion's sacred stories as "myths". They see the sacred texts as indeed containing religious truths, divinely inspired but delivered in the language of mankind.
GeoFee
I am who I am becoming...
The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, a pearl, leaven, treasure hidden in a field and so on. Literal language is incapable of expressing transcendent being. The moment we take transcendent being and render it literally it becomes an idol. We mistake form for substance.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
I have found a most interesting collection of articles expounding on how religion, myth, history, and Science Fiction go well together - - "Science Fiction and the Bible"
Seeing that I cannot copy and paste from this very lengthy article I will transcribe a bit of it. There may be typos and it may not be word for word but here goes ...
The worldview of the present day tends to expect humans to need to sort things out for ourselves. Salvation may emerge, but typically it will come from within the process rather than outside it. As Uhlenbruch observes, "Divine intervention my not be en vogue in contemporary story-telling, but networked individuals and the emergence of something bigger than a sum of parts is a very popular topos." And yet nevertheless, the desperate hope for outside assistance -- whether in the discovery of the power of a substance, or contact with a personal alien or deity -- to effect longed-for salvation, remains with us, as seen time and time again in the attention given to biblical stories of this sort and the composition of new Science Fiction stories along similar lines.
The response by readers to stories of this sort not only in the past, but also in the present, suggests that we may not have changed as much as we sometimes like to think. But who or what we expect to save us makes a difference, as does whether we think we are being saved from a force outside ourselves, or from our very selves.
For the critical scholar, exploration of the Hebrew Bible's theological perspectives is, in a sense, a study in idolatry. Although these texts are famous for their polemic against idolatry, it can be argued that the attempt to turn the absolute into story, into words and ideas that the human mind can comprehend, is every bit as idolatrous as the depiction of God using stone and metal.
As Landy writes in his article, "We imagine and create omnipotent forces that control us." And yet, just as we are deluding ourselves if we think that by avoiding the making of physical images we can avoid mental idolatry, so too we would be deluding ourselves if we thought that we could simply avoid thinking, imagining, or telling stories about the divine.
Indeed, perhaps the issue with idolatry pertains less to thinking or narrating, and more to the tendency after we have imagined or narrated to fix what our minds have made as hard and fast as if they were literally set in stone.
The Bible sets it legal prohibitions of idolatry within a narrative framework of stories about God, hinting that, while fixed images seek to constrain God and so constrain us, our imaginations, and our possibilities, the narrating of God, when approached in an open-ended manner, invites us to explore, reflect, and grow. Theologies have the potential to be freeing or captivating.
In his article, Landy echoes Henri Bergson's reference to "the essential function of the universe, which is a machine for the making of gods." More precisely, the universe seems to be a machine for the making of people who make gods. And it is a machine for the making of people who make stories, about the divine and about ourselves. If some Science Fiction has attempted to desacralize the cosmos and remove the divine from the picture, the very act of imaginative storytelling, it may be argued, cannot but serve as symbol and sacrament pointing towards transcendent mystery.
Science Fiction has used tired narrative cliches just as religious literature has , and both kinds of literature have managed to produce works that continue to provoke and engage. Science Fiction has the potential to disturb us every bit as much as ancient religious literature does, and sometimes in relation to the same topics. If Science Fiction asks whether we could tell if our deity were simply a powerful alien, religious literature -- however much it may offer reassurances in places about the character of God -- tells stories which make us wonder what sort of entity we are dealing with too.
Humanity is made in God's image, according to Genesis, and humans in turn try to envisage God in terms of our own image and likeness. Thus caught in an endless spiral, we find ourselves overwhelmed by the numinous and repulsed by the grotesque that is glimpsed at the edges of the cosmos and at the same time found lurking the dark recesses of our hearts and minds. This is true in both Science Fiction and in the Hebrew Bible. And when two sets of literature turn humanity's gaze in the same direction, provokes reflection on our deepest questions, and evokes the same kinds of emotional responses both positive and negative, can there be any doubt that these genres, which might seem to some polar opposites, are in fact two sides of the same coin?
Some who study the Hebrew Bible will have reacted with dismay at the connection of as serious a subject as theirs with something as trivial as Science Fiction. Some who study Science Fiction will have reacted with horror at the connection of as serious a subject as theirs with texts they associate with superstition and a variety of other things seemingly antithetical to the 'spirit' of Science Fiction.
Our desire to desacralize and to re-enchant, to find security and to explore, to understand and to stand in awe of mystery, find expression in a great many different kinds of stories that we tell. The enjoyment and study of them is part of our effort to understand ourselves.
Seeing that I cannot copy and paste from this very lengthy article I will transcribe a bit of it. There may be typos and it may not be word for word but here goes ...
The worldview of the present day tends to expect humans to need to sort things out for ourselves. Salvation may emerge, but typically it will come from within the process rather than outside it. As Uhlenbruch observes, "Divine intervention my not be en vogue in contemporary story-telling, but networked individuals and the emergence of something bigger than a sum of parts is a very popular topos." And yet nevertheless, the desperate hope for outside assistance -- whether in the discovery of the power of a substance, or contact with a personal alien or deity -- to effect longed-for salvation, remains with us, as seen time and time again in the attention given to biblical stories of this sort and the composition of new Science Fiction stories along similar lines.
The response by readers to stories of this sort not only in the past, but also in the present, suggests that we may not have changed as much as we sometimes like to think. But who or what we expect to save us makes a difference, as does whether we think we are being saved from a force outside ourselves, or from our very selves.
For the critical scholar, exploration of the Hebrew Bible's theological perspectives is, in a sense, a study in idolatry. Although these texts are famous for their polemic against idolatry, it can be argued that the attempt to turn the absolute into story, into words and ideas that the human mind can comprehend, is every bit as idolatrous as the depiction of God using stone and metal.
As Landy writes in his article, "We imagine and create omnipotent forces that control us." And yet, just as we are deluding ourselves if we think that by avoiding the making of physical images we can avoid mental idolatry, so too we would be deluding ourselves if we thought that we could simply avoid thinking, imagining, or telling stories about the divine.
Indeed, perhaps the issue with idolatry pertains less to thinking or narrating, and more to the tendency after we have imagined or narrated to fix what our minds have made as hard and fast as if they were literally set in stone.
The Bible sets it legal prohibitions of idolatry within a narrative framework of stories about God, hinting that, while fixed images seek to constrain God and so constrain us, our imaginations, and our possibilities, the narrating of God, when approached in an open-ended manner, invites us to explore, reflect, and grow. Theologies have the potential to be freeing or captivating.
In his article, Landy echoes Henri Bergson's reference to "the essential function of the universe, which is a machine for the making of gods." More precisely, the universe seems to be a machine for the making of people who make gods. And it is a machine for the making of people who make stories, about the divine and about ourselves. If some Science Fiction has attempted to desacralize the cosmos and remove the divine from the picture, the very act of imaginative storytelling, it may be argued, cannot but serve as symbol and sacrament pointing towards transcendent mystery.
Science Fiction has used tired narrative cliches just as religious literature has , and both kinds of literature have managed to produce works that continue to provoke and engage. Science Fiction has the potential to disturb us every bit as much as ancient religious literature does, and sometimes in relation to the same topics. If Science Fiction asks whether we could tell if our deity were simply a powerful alien, religious literature -- however much it may offer reassurances in places about the character of God -- tells stories which make us wonder what sort of entity we are dealing with too.
Humanity is made in God's image, according to Genesis, and humans in turn try to envisage God in terms of our own image and likeness. Thus caught in an endless spiral, we find ourselves overwhelmed by the numinous and repulsed by the grotesque that is glimpsed at the edges of the cosmos and at the same time found lurking the dark recesses of our hearts and minds. This is true in both Science Fiction and in the Hebrew Bible. And when two sets of literature turn humanity's gaze in the same direction, provokes reflection on our deepest questions, and evokes the same kinds of emotional responses both positive and negative, can there be any doubt that these genres, which might seem to some polar opposites, are in fact two sides of the same coin?
Some who study the Hebrew Bible will have reacted with dismay at the connection of as serious a subject as theirs with something as trivial as Science Fiction. Some who study Science Fiction will have reacted with horror at the connection of as serious a subject as theirs with texts they associate with superstition and a variety of other things seemingly antithetical to the 'spirit' of Science Fiction.
Our desire to desacralize and to re-enchant, to find security and to explore, to understand and to stand in awe of mystery, find expression in a great many different kinds of stories that we tell. The enjoyment and study of them is part of our effort to understand ourselves.
Ritafee
Is Being Human
All The Times Science Fiction Became Science Fact In One Chart
Not every science fiction story is meant to predict the future, but some of them have forecast future events with incredible accuracy. This timeline sketches out some of the most exciting examples of times that science fiction became fact.
io9.gizmodo.com
As a small seed it is sort of waifish ... like spots on the infinite horizon that is like a gypsy ... roven?
Can you imagine, or conjure up, an image of an indeterminate being moving about to create determinate ... and then denying it? The the impressed mediums ... as somewhat dark and in the twilight zone as tripartite ... or at least out there ... fringy!
Resembles a neurosurgeon in the cut ... dry gulch?
Resembles a neurosurgeon in the cut ... dry gulch?