What makes someone "religious"?

[Mendalla]

We often refer to people as being "religious"? What does that mean to you? Has the meaning changed? Are you "religious"?

The first image I come up with for "religious" in a person, and this is probably a generational thing, is people in their Sunday finery going to church week in and week out, singing solemnly to the hymns, going through all the correct motions in worship. They also join church groups or even get involved in governance. (In short, my parents).

There's also a moralist connotation, I think. People who live upright lives and frown on the sins and flaws of others. Who keep their virginity until their wedding night, drink in moderation if at all, and generally come across as a bit "square". Not that all religious people are like that, but it's a stereotype frequently shown in media (e.g. SNL's The Church Lady).

But that's cultural perception. Can we go beyond the stereotypes and make "religious" a label people will actually want instead of something to be avoided or even mocked. Is there a sense in which I, a non-churchgoing sort-of UU who is fairly "live and let live" on moral questions, could be religious?

 

[paradox3]

I don't even use the term, really. It has acquired many negative connotations . . . possibly due to its association with fundamentalism. I think the whole "spiritual but not religious" thing has further undermined idea of being "religious".

I don't use the word "spiritual" much either.

For myself and others I know, I am more likely to use the term "person of faith".

Yes, I am a Christian. Depending on context I am happy to own this as well.

And I consider myself a liberal Christian if it is necessary to explain further. These things come up much more often on WC2 than in real life, I find.

 

[Mystic]

1/3 of Anericans claim to be "spiritual" but not "religious." So the real practical question is what they mean by this distinction. I have always been appalled by evangelicals who claim to oppose "religion" and instead to obey Jesus and have an intimate personal relationship with Him. They are using the word "religion" in an unnaturally novel way. So we need to clarify terms.

 

[BetteTheRed]

"Religious" = "always at the church or doing church stuff", in my experience. Until I figured out how to fix it, my "dropbox" dinged every time someone changed a file in one of our dropbox files (all the church business, basically, except the financials). My computer dinged to the point that my poor old guy couldn't watch a tv show... I've just been on the phone to him explaining the confluence of my work and church life this week and suggesting that, unless he joins daughter and I for a sushi/Korean lunch this week on Wed/Thurs, that he might see me again Sunday afternoon, assuming I don't have to work...

 

[Jae]

1/3 of Anericans claim to be "spiritual" but not "religious." So the real practical question is what they mean by this distinction. I have always been appalled by evangelicals who claim to oppose "religion" and instead to obey Jesus and have an intimate personal relationship with Him. They are using the word "religion" in an unnaturally novel way. So we need to clarify terms.

1/3 of Anericans claim to be "spiritual" but not "religious." So the real practical question is what they mean by this distinction. I have always been appalled by evangelicals who claim to oppose "religion" and instead to obey Jesus and have an intimate personal relationship with Him. They are using the word "religion" in an unnaturally novel way. So we need to clarify terms.

We evangelicals do care about being religious (clearly since we keep gathering in churches, reading the Bible, celebrating holy days, etc.).

However, we stress the relationship we believe we have with God through Christ as we trust that's what actually saves.

 

[Luce NDs]

Institutionalized order that is swayed one way ... to those deserving of the physical part of the spirit ... the emotion of always wanting more ... and thus losing essence of the alternate ... Y's M'N (dive*rse) on the go ... beyond the physical spirit and thus essential to the concept of Webster (Daniel, Noah, or William) ... that is the cognizance that intellect is something beyond the entirely emotional Eire Heads!

If cooled it could condense and gather something of essence ... which will be lost if following laws of the mire which are dirty pool ... something to be experienced by those from strange places ... born of psyche'ç events?

Stray from gra Mere al roues ... investigate the poesy ... for satyr and deviates from fixation ... bean stuck ... become alternate ... unstuck as mental conflict? There's Moor than mortals can imagine ... some abstraction prerequisite ... thus the Shadow no doubt!

Explains the "embarrassment of riches" no doubt connected to Shaman ... and the essence of means ... considered mediocre by both extremes ... avoiding poetic LI*sense! Unable to perceive right from the wrongly left over the edge ... routinely remaining unsound and unbalanced as silent? Something to be conscientiously addressed ... but alas desired to be unknown ideals as well down there in the mouth 've Ide ...

The life of the saddest ... dusting along Machiavellian in nature as a dark chord ... minor?

Right now as a major sharp is a pain ... it will erupt and pay forward! Nothing can help us ... due to stuck Eddy in Ness ... Ed*in*burgh ... dig the celtic past as a stone ... unmovable move to other places? Sandstone Kirks in foreign establishments .. enterprises out there ... and thus thoughtfulness dives ... Ad Torus ... Donatus is a mechanism for a powerful spin.

 

[Luce NDs]

All surrounds a powerful dark spot ... people of the horizon incident in twilight? Could be hoar frost or a warming event as frozen in templar mode ... otherwise temporal and out there ...

According to myrrh Phi it come together in a distant point of the clockwork ... if it Kahn it will ...

Do tell!

 

[Mendalla]

"spiritual" but not "religious." So the real practical question is what they mean by this distinction.

This line (spiritual but not religious), while it could arguably be applied to me, bugs me on a few levels.

The first, as you suggest, is just the matter of definition. It's a meaningless statement without knowing what the speaker actually means by those words.

The second is that many who use it don't seem to actually care what it means. They just use it as a throwaway excuse to avoid talking about why they don't go to church or whatever. It's just a phrase that gets tossed about by people who don't actually care whether it really means anything.

Finally, it sets up what I think is a false dichotomy. It implies that the speaker thinks these are two different things when, if you actually look at the meaning of the words, they are are not. They can, and perhaps should, inform each other.

Which brings me to how I parse that phrase (and, to some degree, answer my own question):

To me, "spiritual" is the inward side, one's personal beliefs and values. It isn't about "I am a Christian" but rather about "I believe in God and in Jesus as the manifestation of that God." It is how we see our connection to all that is on a deep personal level without the doctrinal language and practices.

"Religious" would then be about the outward side, what tradition we choose to follow, doctrines, practices, etc. This is where you say "I am a Christian", "I am a UU", "I am a Jew", etc. and go to "church" and so on.

So, "spiritual but not religious" is then a focus on personal beliefs and values without the social/community component of involvement in organized religion. It's personal beliefs without tying them to an organized tradition.

But one could also be "religious but not spiritual", someone who simply does what their tradition tells them without really having much of an individual identity. You just believe and do what the "church" (which could be a church, mosque, synagogue, or whatever) tells you and don't really think much about it.

And one could be "spiritual and religious", with strong personal beliefs and values that then inform (and are informed by) one's devotion to a tradition.

And I would actually put myself in the latter with the proviso that I am presently without a religious community that fits my personal spirituality. I am not averse to becoming a part of a community, just feel that it has to be the right community. But given a community that fits, I can be quite active and devoted to the work of that community.

Now, one caveat on all this is that it is informed by my recent history in UU'ism. Saying "I am UU" doesn't really tell someone much about what you actually believe. You can be a UU in the sense of being a member of a UU community and hold any number of possible beliefs. As long as they don't somehow lead you to contradict the principles, any set of beliefs is really fair game under our fourth principle (free and responsible search for truth and meaning). I've met UUs with Christian beliefs, humanist beliefs, pagan beliefs, Buddhist beliefs, and so on. So "spiritual" and "religious" can be a very real divide when you're a UU. But, again, there is that interplay where how you live in UU community is at least somewhat shaped by your personal spirituality and your personal spirituality is, hopefully, learning something from living and working in that community.

 

[Luce NDs]

Just finished re reading The Road Less Travelled where Scott Peck identifies parts of soul-mind-psyche as essence of the unknown idealism for those that would rather not know ...

In essence is the soul non existent as has been suggested by a clique of theologians (theorists on logos)?

What can we know of the diminished past ... being fixated on presence ...

 

[Luce NDs]

In the case of solipsism ... and self interrogation ... is anything better Eire than cyberspace ... where there's so much intelligence ... few mortals will attend to the racket as a disposed whisper in the dark ...

All ice ... don't look, don't listen and then no need to speak about stray thoughts ... they be out there and all about ... inclusive! Mortals will not have the cognate ... thus become unhinged! Pan Door was blown as the gatekeeper dozed off ... another watchman was set ...

Myth maqon is a dark art ... universally MS Understood ...

 

[blackbelt1961]

Religion places one in bondage to adhere to proper rites, acts & practices set by the spirit of humanity to be accepted by the divine. Because religion is rooted in self it has missed the True mark of freedom & salvation and thus it is a sin , religion can never set one free, God Hates religion.

Isaiah 1:11 What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?" says the LORD. "I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.


True spirituality sets one free of all sin and religious rule because True Spirituality is rooted in the one being of Life , The Creator, all that has been accomplished by Christ has all been rooted in the Creator, and those who are set free of sin and religious rule rest in His Freedom .

 

[Mendalla]

Religion places one in bondage to adhere to proper rites, acts & practices set by the spirit of humanity to be accepted by the divine.

That's been the historical way in many traditions, but could it not also, in the modern era, be an outward expression and celebration of one's faith? Not a requirement for being accepted but thanks and praise for being such? After all, Calvinists like John still go to church faithfully even though they believe salvation was decided at the beginning of time and has nothing to do with going to church. Or do you regard that kind of "religion" in a different light?

 

[chansen]

I think of "spiritual" people as those who claim to experience something they can not show anyone else.

I think of "religious" people as those who connect that spiritual experience (and sometimes have no spiritual experiences) to a central text about that spiritual presence and sometimes follow the advice of that spirit to drive their cars no more than 20 minutes away to hear more about that spirit from someone who has demonstrated extreme patience for reading about it and maybe ponder that spirit in a group setting.

 

[blackbelt1961]

That's been the historical way in many traditions, but could it not also, in the modern era, be an outward expression and celebration of one's faith? Not a requirement for being accepted but thanks and praise for being such? After all, Calvinists like John still go to church faithfully even though they believe salvation was decided at the beginning of time and has nothing to do with going to church. Or do you regard that kind of "religion" in a different light?

if you walk into a christian church, there is no Musts? singing, worshiping is not religious , this is not to say that even in christian circles there is no danger of falling into religiosity because there is, same as falling into legalism. Because mans heart is so rooted & focused on the self , that the self always fights for 1st place, even when it comes to God.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I find myself considering 'religious' people to be those who frequently try to shove it into others peoples' faces. They may respond with a Bible quote to a simple "Lovely day today eh". I found it 'religious' when an Anglican priest , wearing his cassock, very pointedly pulled it aside lest it touch me as we passed in a hospital hallway. Maybe he thought I would contaminate it or something! I found it 'religious' when a Salvation Army officer stoppped me on the street to tell me I was going to Hell if I didn't accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour. I found it 'religious' when a congregation 'welcomed' me but stymied my efforts in be included in activities.

 

[Mendalla]

I find myself considering 'religious' people to be those who frequently try to shove it into others peoples' faces. They may respond with a Bible quote to a simple "Lovely day today eh". I found it 'religious' when an Anglican priest , wearing his cassock, very pointedly pulled it aside lest it touch me as we passed in a hospital hallway. Maybe he thought I would contaminate it or something! I found it 'religious' when a Salvation Army officer stoppped me on the street to tell me I was going to Hell if I didn't accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour. I found it 'religious' when a congregation 'welcomed' me but stymied my efforts in be included in activities.

See, that's the negative stereotype of "religious" to a tea. It's likely why the word is falling out of favour to some degree (see Paradox3's post).

The question is, is that behaviour truly "religious" or is it people behaving badly in the name of religion? What about all the devout, church-going people who don't behave like that? Are they "religious"?

 

[Luce NDs]

See, that's the negative stereotype of "religious" to a tea. It's likely why the word is falling out of favour to some degree (see Paradox3's post).

The question is, is that behaviour truly "religious" or is it people behaving badly in the name of religion? What about all the devout, church-going people who don't behave like that? Are they "religious"?

No ... its false Nous ... but no respect for the mind being unconscious! Poe Mei's ole ...

 

[unsafe]

 

[unsafe]

Religion is Satan's biggest weapon -----he Loves keeping people in Bondage -----it keeps them from the only one who can Free them ---Jesus Christ ---

Satan Loves it when we say I am a very Religious Person -----He laughs all the way to his soul bank -----cause it keep us in bondage to him ---shackled with no escape ----


-----

 

[Mendalla]

So @unsafe , you do not belong to or attend a church, I take it? And, really, a lot of people you deride, like atheists, are not religious so that means that they are free of bondage, doesn't it?