The BC Election Result

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Where I live now it's all orange or green (NDP needs a new colour? Otherwise they're well liked here). I don't think their platforms were that far apart and they formed a potential coalition quickly and determinedly. 57% of British Columbians did not vote for the BC Liberals.

NDP had 40.something of the vote count. BC Libs 40.something% and Greens 16.something. The majority in BC supported an NDP Green coalition. I don't think their platforms were terribly far apart - maybe on purpose?
 
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The BC Peace is decidedly not green or orange. To read comments from there, you would think the sky is falling. There is very real fear about what an NDP/Green leadership would do to the economy of the Peace. A small part of me agrees with them. The Lower Mainland and Island seem to have a very limited knowledge of the importance of oil and gas, and resource industry in general to the province.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
 
But how do we transition away from fossil fuels if we keep supporting them instead of creating more "green" jobs? It just keeps getting deferred. I understand they need their jobs. Future generations need a habitable planet.
 
Kimmio said:
But how do we transition away from fossil fuels if we keep supporting them instead of creating more "green" jobs? It just keeps getting deferred. I understand they need their jobs. Future generations need a habitable planet.
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It isn't an either/or argument. There are ways to make the industry more sustainable and environmentally friendly. (or at least less destructive) I'll pull out the argument they often use in these cases. How will you live without fossil fuels in your life? Like it or not, they are necessary. There is a whole world in BC north of about Hope, and much of it depends on resource related jobs.

It's easy to criticize the industry from afar. Like it or not, the "oil patch" is a significant contributor to BC's economy. That needs to be considered in any policy planning.
 
Kimmio said:
But how do we transition away from fossil fuels if we keep supporting them instead of creating more "green" jobs? It just keeps getting deferred. I understand they need their jobs. Future generations need a habitable planet.
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Even if every car on the planet was electric and every power plant was nuclear or solar or whatever, we would still be drilling for oil. It is not just a fuel. It is a raw ingredient in plastics.

And even talking about using them as fuel, the problem is that we can't just stop using fossil fuels. There has to be a replacement. And, to be honest, even environmentalists aren't in agreement on that replacement. Solar, wind, nuclear, all come with environmental issues of their own (chemicals used in production, disruption of bird migration and possible health issues, radioactive waste) so until we decide which lesser evil we will accept, fossil fuels are going to be around.
 
If we could recycle the plastics polluting the miles wide, Texas sized - garbage islands in the ocean - and in our daily lives - we wouldn't need oil. There are so many innovators and jobs needed to clean up and restore our planet - we have to phase out the majority of fossil fuel production soon.
 
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I walk and ride the bus which uses clean energy fuels, and electric hybrids - and in Vancouver, cables. I ride in cars infrequently. Electric cars are possible and viable and could've been more plentiful a long time ago. We're not doing enough, fast enough - and the arguments sound to me like excuses.
 
Kimmio said:
I walk and ride the bus which uses clean energy fuels, and electric hybrids - and in Vancouver, cables. I ride in cars infrequently. Electric cars are possible and viable and could've been more plentiful a long time ago. We're not doing enough, fast enough - and the arguments sound to me like excuses.
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Last week I drove 7 hours to an event. Last I heard electric cars (and the infrastructure to support them) are not viable for that sort of thing. Nor are they financially feasible for a very large segment of the population.

Personally I would think that the pipeline project most in the Canadian interest is in fact Energy East, not NOrthern Gateway (which seems to have dropped off the radar now) not TransMountain, and not Keystone XL. AS long as our economy is fossil-fuel dependent pipelines appear to be the most efficient method of transporting liquid (and liquified gas) fuels.
 
Mendalla said:
Even if every car on the planet was electric and every power plant was nuclear or solar or whatever, we would still be drilling for oil. It is not just a fuel. It is a raw ingredient in plastics.

And even talking about using them as fuel, the problem is that we can't just stop using fossil fuels. There has to be a replacement. And, to be honest, even environmentalists aren't in agreement on that replacement. Solar, wind, nuclear, all come with environmental issues of their own (chemicals used in production, disruption of bird migration and possible health issues, radioactive waste) so until we decide which lesser evil we will accept, fossil fuels are going to be around.
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In the end "clean" energy is a myth. The choice is about "cleaner" and also about which form of environmental impact is deemed preferable. Because we as a society (and to be honest many/most of us as individuals) have become to accustomed to the amount of energy we are currently using -- and have bought in to the idea that continued economic growth is both possible and mandatory.
 
Kimmio said:
I walk and ride the bus which uses clean energy fuels, and electric hybrids - and in Vancouver, cables. I ride in cars infrequently. Electric cars are possible and viable and could've been more plentiful a long time ago. We're not doing enough, fast enough - and the arguments sound to me like excuses.
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"Clean energy fuels"? You mean natural gas? That's a hydrocarbon. It releases CO2, just not as much as gasoline. So it has to go eventually, too. If it is burning something, it's likely releasing CO2 so unless your buses are using hydrogen fuel cells, they are only relatively "clean".

Electric cars are quite viable but the only ones with decent range right now are the Teslas, which cost a mint (the Chevy Bolt looks like it will change that equation but I won't touch GM with a 10' pole). And charging stations are rare in Southwestern Ontario so other electrics like the Nissan Leaf are really only useful for urban commuting. If you do any highway driving, you need at least a gas-electric hybrid around here.

And while I'm glad you live in a city with decent transit, a lot of us don't. This damn city couldn't run a proper transit system if the council's lives depended on it. The new transit plan looks good but they've already nerfed part of it due to opposition from downtown business owners. It would take me the better part of an hour and two transfers to get to work by bus (and most of London's buses are still diesel) and I wouldn't have the option of picking up groceries and takeout on the way home so it ain't happening. It's also a very walking unfriendly city, especially the area where I live.

I understand what you are saying, but we can't change things yesterday without serious disruption. I know you're going to say that I'm putting my convenience ahead of the environment or something, but I'm really not. Practicality has to enter into the equation at some point.

For instance, I'll buy an electric car when I know I can drive it as far as I can drive my CR-V with reliable access to fast charging when I'm outside the city. I can drive most of the way to Ottawa on a tank of gas in it (turbocharged four cylinder engine). Right now, I'd risk getting stuck on low-speed charging port God knows where for two hours in order to make that trip in most electrics. So for now, I drive small, fuel-efficient vehicles that have relatively good emissions ratings and that will have to do.
 
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Yeah. At some point "they" may have to disrupt the status quo though, and phase out fuel reliant vehicles and energy. Just like the VCR was phased out. People won't be pleased at first, but will adapt - and innovation will be allowed to thrive if the focus is there - to make better transportation products. Right now that is getting so much push back that innovators can't innovate and really move things forward - and that's why the technology is not advancing enough for people to take it seriously enough.

Europe will be ahead of us. Japan will be ahead of us. China may even end up ahead of us - and we'll still be calling it impractical.
 
Kimmio said:
Right now that is getting so much push back that innovators can't innovate and really move things forward - and that's why the technology is not advancing enough for people to take it seriously enough.
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Bringing back "gas guzzler" taxes would help drive people back to smaller vehicles at least, though it probably wouldn't help ZEVs and transit much. Convincing people that there is such a thing as "enough car" and that they really can make do with a CR-V or Edge instead of buying that monster GM SUV is a hard job but making them pay through the nose for the privilege of driving a full-size with a huge diesel engine might help.

London, England had a good idea in making people pay to drive in the core. Not sure how that would work here, though, where commuting is the norm and transit isn't always up to the job. Again, set it up to favour ZEVs over gas.

Kimmio said:
Europe will be IS ahead of us. Japan will be ahead of us. China may even end up ahead of us - and we'll still be calling it impractical.
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Fixed yer typo. Europe has never gone for the oversized, gas guzzling monsters the way Americans and Canadians do so the shift to ZEVs and hybrids is easier for them. Japan likewise. China worries me. They are starting to love their Buicks and Benzes over there, though most people drive smaller fare just for economic reasons.
 
Kimmio said:
At some point "they" may have to disrupt the status quo though, and phase out fuel reliant vehicles and energy. Just like the VCR was phased out. People won't be pleased at first, but will adapt - and innovation will be allowed to thrive if the focus is there - to make better transportation products. Right now that is getting so much push back that innovators can't innovate and really move things forward - and that's why the technology is not advancing enough for people to take it seriously enough.
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Disrupting the status quo and discussing the issues are great.There also though, needs to be a realization that real people are being affected. It is all well and good to encourage and support electric vehicles, and to use public transportation. That works pretty well in the Lower Mainland. It is not at all feasible where there are frigid winters, and large geographic areas. I would not be able to use a purely electric vehicle in this area for a variety of reasons. Don't even get me started on the public transit.

The oil and gas industry will not go away overnight. We moved to FSJ in 1999. Since that time, we have seen far more consideration of the environmental impact, and ways to mitigate that. That's a start. Innovators are continuing to innovate. Their products will enter the system, and work alongside the products that are being phased out. It cannot be done overnight.

@Kimmio have you been to northern BC? If so, have you been there in the winter?
 
GordW said:
Last week I drove 7 hours to an event. Last I heard electric cars (and the infrastructure to support them) are not viable for that sort of thing. Nor are they financially feasible for a very large segment of the population.
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No public transportation here in St. Anthony. There used to be one lone taxi in operation. If it still exists I have yet to see it in action.

Public roadways are, to be fair, a mess of potholes. As the population shifts away from the Great Northern Peninsula the Provincial Government is going to have a harder and harder time justifying road maintenance. Private citizens are attempting to bankroll the installation of two more cell towers to give us an expanded and more reliable service area. Who is going to plunk down money for that when there is a very strong possibility that they will very soon not be able to afford to live here and access that overpriced service?

Shrimp quota was cut for the inshore fleet and it looks very much like many captains with a quota will not put to sea because the prices being offered for shrimp are so dismally low. Reduced prices and reduced quota mean that boats prosecuting the shrimp fishery will go bust if they even try to fish that resource. So, expect shrimp to climb a bit at your local grocer's.

Domino's will fall very quickly. Without catch to process the processors run the risk of having their quotas for processing cut. That will lead to more workers at the fishplants being laid off and less tax dollars for infrastructure and down and down it goes.

I don't know whey steps to conserve the resource were not taken earlier.

I do know that when the province of Ontario faced a crisis in the game fishery back in the late 40's early 50's they began a very aggressive hatchery program which ran into mid to late 70's. They tossed in other conservation measures which were initially met with much complaint but in the end that programming proved successful and when stocks were brought to a level which most input thought more than sustainable the hatchery program was discontinued. There are private hatcheries at work stocking municipally operated fish ponds. That is about it.

For some reason it is believed that such a project could not work here in NL. I don't think it would be easy. I think it is, at the very least, well worth the effort and technologies now are different than what they had to work with then. Of course there is still an infrastructure problem.

No real vision though for the future.

Heck we are celebrating the launch of a new oil platform. Nothing is sure to raise the world oil prices like the production of more oil right? And we are building a new hydro dam, partially to cut the power generated from Churchhill falls and stick it to Quebec because they refused to revisit a deal which benefitted themselves enormously and NL hardly at all. That actually is to be expected when you have barely reached the halfway point of a really badly negotiated deal.

This province has seen better days.
 
Northwind said:
Disrupting the status quo and discussing the issues are great.There also though, needs to be a realization that real people are being affected. It is all well and good to encourage and support electric vehicles, and to use public transportation. That works pretty well in the Lower Mainland. It is not at all feasible where there are frigid winters, and large geographic areas. I would not be able to use a purely electric vehicle in this area for a variety of reasons. Don't even get me started on the public transit.

The oil and gas industry will not go away overnight. We moved to FSJ in 1999. Since that time, we have seen far more consideration of the environmental impact, and ways to mitigate that. That's a start. Innovators are continuing to innovate. Their products will enter the system, and work alongside the products that are being phased out. It cannot be done overnight.

@Kimmio have you been to northern BC? If so, have you been there in the winter?
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yes. And no. I haven't really experienced deep winter. Edmonton is the closest to it I've been and I don't like it there except for the people I know. I don't think I could live there very easily. They are very vehicle dependent. Even in summer. It's a bunch of freeways, not much pedestrian access and I've heard transit isn't so great. It's so spread out it probably doesn't reach every new r elopement yet.

I realize the changes will be harder for some communities. I wonder how much oil and gas is used in Inuit communities in the territories? Are there electric snowmobiles?
 
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@Kimmio you didn't answer my question. Have you been in northern BC?

I imagine Inuit communities do use a fair amount of oil and gas. They have cars and trucks and snowmobiles, and have to heat their homes. Speaking of that, how do you suggest we heat our homes in the north when it gets to -30 or colder often?
 
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