Post Modern/Progressive Christianity

[Ryan Hauck]

Greetings one and all!

Its been some time since I posted in these forums, and life has been nothing short of a wonderful, miraculous journey.
I come here today to inquire how willing the members here are to embracing new idea's about Christianity, Christ, Jesus, God, Heaven, and the Atonement.

I have been spending a great deal of time studying and exploring the Contemplative tradition of Christianity, and have found there to be a wellspring of spiritual value that I have never experienced with mainstream, traditional Christianity. In fact, the last time I went to church I had the vivid experience that there was something outside the church, cranking a wheel to keep the whole circle going.. lol ..

Anywho, I have been following the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Theory) and Father Thomas Keating (Centering Prayer) and have been wanting to engage into some discourse relating to some of the "leading edge" idea's being posited by more progressive forms of Christianity.

AUM

 

[Hermann]

Hi Ryan:

Almost every religion has a contemplative tradition. In Christianity, it would be the monastic tradition. But it has to struggle to reconcile conventional church doctrine with the feeling of at-one-ment, which is the primary feeling experienced in deep meditation. Some traditional Christian metaphors have to be stretched almost to the breaking point to match the feeling, and I think "why bother?" Why not simply practice contemplation or mediatation without any of that cumbersome, doctrinal baggage?

I have come back to Christianity through the practice of Zen. What I love about Zen is that it is just practice, with very little philosophizing. Actually, Zen is just practice, pure practice: the practice of austere living, combined with meditation. The philosophy of Zen is not Zen. The philosophy of Zen is just the philosophy of Zen, and is different from the practice. The practice is what counts, it can be practiced without philosophy, and one can act morally by acting spontaneously and intuitively, directly from the depth of the experience.

Because thinking is a form of action, one can also think directly from the depth of the experience. Then one is a Zen philosopher. But one doesn't have to be. It is the practice that counts, and everyone can practice it, inside or outside of any religion, with or without God.

Spirituality simplified.

 

[Jae]

Greetings one and all!

Its been some time since I posted in these forums, and life has been nothing short of a wonderful, miraculous journey.
I come here today to inquire how willing the members here are to embracing new idea's about Christianity, Christ, Jesus, God, Heaven, and the Atonement.

I have been spending a great deal of time studying and exploring the Contemplative tradition of Christianity, and have found there to be a wellspring of spiritual value that I have never experienced with mainstream, traditional Christianity. In fact, the last time I went to church I had the vivid experience that there was something outside the church, cranking a wheel to keep the whole circle going.. lol ..

Anywho, I have been following the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Theory) and Father Thomas Keating (Centering Prayer) and have been wanting to engage into some discourse relating to some of the "leading edge" idea's being posited by more progressive forms of Christianity.

AUM

Hi Ryan, since I'm a conservative evangelical, I can't really speak as a progressive Christian. Contemplative spirituality is something I'm interested in, though. I subscribe to a Fr. Keating discussion group on Facebook, have done some contemplative exercises from a Renovare workbook, and meet monthly with a Spiritual Director for guidance in prayer, and exercises including lectio divina. How did you become interested in the contemplative side of things Ryan?

 

[Mystic]

In my view, Richard Rohr is the Progressive who best combines contemplative insights with liberal theological perspectives. You can hear several of his lectures by googling his name and Youtube. I disagree with his theology, but he excels at what he does.

 

[Hermann]

In my view, Richard Rohr is the Progressive who best combines contemplative insights with liberal theological perspectives. You can hear several of his lectures by googling his name and Youtube. I disagree with his theology, but he excels at what he does.

If you are interested in Richard Rohr, you can subscribe to Richard Rohr's Daily Meditations, for free by e-mail. I do, and actually use his Daily Meditations as daily contemplations. Richard Rohr is one example of what I said above about stretching some Christian metaphors almost to the breaking point to make them fit into nondualistic philosophy, which is more Buddhist than Christian.

 

[Hermann]

The purpose of meditation is to still the incessant chatter of our thoughts, and open all our senses to perceive IT. Alert stillness.

-Richard Rohr

 

[RevLindsG King]

Greetings one and all!

Its been some time since I posted in these forums, and life has been nothing short of a wonderful, miraculous journey.

I come here today to inquire about how willing the members here are in embracing new idea's about Christianity, Christ, Jesus, God, Heaven, and the Atonement.

Ryan, Lindsay King here. Did I just hear you ask about how interested we are in exploring:

New idea's about Christianity, Christ, Jesus, God, Heaven, and the Atonement?

THANKS FOR THE IMPORTANT QUESTION and for the challenge that we all need to think deeply about life so we will become empowered to WILLingly take action! I am very interested in exploring how life works: somatologically, psychologically, and especially, pneumatologically--that is, bodily, mentally and spiritually.

Interestingly, in 1 Thess., 5:23. Paul makes this tri-unity and integral kind of point.

You go on to tell us,

I have been spending a great deal of time studying and exploring the Contemplative tradition of Christianity, and have found there to be a wellspring of spiritual value that I have never experienced with mainstream, traditional Christianity.

In fact, the last time I went to church I had the vivid experience that there was something outside the church, cranking a wheel to keep the whole circle going......

Then you conclude:

Anywho! I have been following the work of Ken Wilber (Integral Theory), and Father Thomas Keating (Centering Prayer) and have been wanting to engage into some discourse relating to some of the "leading edge" idea's being posited by more progressive forms of Christianity. AUM

Theologically speaking, Ryan, I think of myself as a UNI-theistic panENtheist, one who seeks Unity--that is, Oneness with that which Generates, Organizes and Delivers reality. More on this, later. It was with the help of two excellent books on Integral Theory:

1. INTEGRAL CHRISTIANITY--The Spirit's Call to Evolve, by Paul R. Smith & 2. REVERENT IRREVERENCE--Integral Church for the 21st Century, by the Rev Tom Thresher

that I began to appreciate at least some of Ken Wilbur's totally-inclusive "whole-picture" message.

BTW, Ryan, to me, it looks like that we already have much in common. When and where were you ordained. Born in 1930. I was ordained in June 1953, at http://www.mta.ca/Prospective/Default.aspx NB, in the days when the neo-orthodox and the liberal theologians vied for the hearts and minds of students to: "Follow me!" I was 23. Now let's have, what I feel, know, can and will be a helpful, pleasant and fruitful dialogue open to all with comments and questions. Let the dialogue begin!

 

[Ryan Hauck]

Hi Ryan, since I'm a conservative evangelical, I can't really speak as a progressive Christian. Contemplative spirituality is something I'm interested in, though. I subscribe to a Fr. Keating discussion group on Facebook, have done some contemplative exercises from a Renovare workbook, and meet monthly with a Spiritual Director for guidance in prayer, and exercises including lectio divina. How did you become interested in the contemplative side of things Ryan?

I was never raised in a religious home. My Spiritual journey was borne from a recognition due to living in a destructive and meaningless context. Searching for something deeper I began studying both western psychology and eastern traditions. I grew up with an atheistic attitude toward God and Jesus. perhaps even unwarranted contempt.

My interest in contemplative Christianity has been a part of my process of Forgiveness and the evolution of my consciousness. I feel that if we were to re-visit the bible and the traditional teachings of Christianity from a higher altitude of consciousness, we would have what Joel Goldsmith calls "The Spiritual Key" which would help us understand and truly be open for revelation.

 

[Ryan Hauck]

If you are interested in Richard Rohr, you can subscribe to Richard Rohr's Daily Meditations, for free by e-mail. I do, and actually use his Daily Meditations as daily contemplations. Richard Rohr is one example of what I said above about stretching some Christian metaphors almost to the breaking point to make them fit into nondualistic philosophy, which is more Buddhist than Christian.

Thankyou for this resource, I will be sure to look into it.

Non Duality has been a more recent influence in my spiritual understanding (through studying Advaita Vedanta, A Course in Miracles, and Integral (Evolutionary) Spirituality).

 

[Hermann]

Oneness, unity, synthesis--at-one-ment with everyone and everything, including the creative power of the universe, is something most of us experience when we immerse ourselves in deep meditation.

Separateness--feeling as separate ego selves, and thinking and acting based that feeling--probably is our worst sin as well as the worst of our many illusions.

Atonement is frequently hyphenated as "at-one-ment." Indeed, we atone for our sin or illusion of separateness when we feel at-one-ment, and think and act based on that feeling. That's why some form of contemplation or meditation probably is the most worthwhile spiritual practice.

 

[Ryan Hauck]

Ryan, Lindsay King here. Did I just hear you ask about how interested we are in exploring: THANKS FOR THE IMPORTANT QUESTION and for the challenge that we all need to think deeply about life so we will become empowered to WILLingly take action! I am very interested in exploring how life works: somatologically, psychologically, and especially, pneumatologically--that is, bodily, mentally and spiritually.

Interestingly, in 1 Thess., 5:23. Paul makes this tri-unity and integral kind of point.

You go on to tell us, Then you conclude: Theologically speaking, Ryan, I think of myself as a UNI-theistic panENtheist, one who seeks Unity--that is, Oneness with that which Generates, Organizes and Delivers reality. More on this, later. It was with the help of two excellent books on Integral Theory: that I began to appreciate at least some of Ken Wilbur's totally-inclusive "whole-picture" message.

BTW, Ryan, to me, it looks like that we already have much in common. When and where were you ordained. Born in 1930. I was ordained in June 1953, at http://www.mta.ca/Prospective/Default.aspx NB, in the days when the neo-orthodox and the liberal theologians vied for the hearts and minds of students to: "Follow me!" I was 23. Now let's have, what I feel, know, can and will be a helpful, pleasant and fruitful dialogue open to all with comments and questions. Let the dialogue begin!

Rev Lindsay, Thank you for your response.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to engage in such a conversation. Knowing there is some what of an audience, I will begin exploring some of these "leading edge" idea's in a new thread a little later today.

I am not ordained. I am Blessed, my life miraculous and beautiful.

I really enjoy your acronym for God. Here is another one... Graciously.Organized.Design

Blessings

 

[Ryan Hauck]

Oneness, unity, synthesis--at-one-ment with everyone and everything, including the creative power of the universe, is something most of us experience when we immerse ourselves in deep meditation.

Separateness--feeling as separate ego selves, and thinking and acting based that feeling--probably is our worst sin as well as the worst of our many illusions.

Atonement is frequently hyphenated as "at-one-ment." Indeed, we atone for our sin or illusion of separateness when we feel at-one-ment, and think and act based on that feeling. That's why some form of contemplation or meditation probably is the most worthwhile spiritual practice.

Indeed!

I have learned that without state training (moving through the various states of consciousness) the philosophy and teachings are only half full.
Moving into "Witness" (Turiya) is essential is doing away with the illusive nature of our Ego Mind and its projections.

I would admit that I experienced these states prior to understanding them, but they catapult me into a new dimension of my being, sending me on a journey to understand it more.

 

[Luce NDs]

Progressive ????????

Is this possible in institutional defunct zones ... i.e. alone with those that are kept in the dark by oligarchies demand for secret social organizations so the paradigm won't need to know what the heir ups are doing to the lesser powers?

It is best if the common people don't know ... and naïveté appears as communicable ... something those devoid don't have to ponder!

 

[Luce NDs]

Do you know the understanding of the Go Lem ... that travelling heart that bites? Careful where you put your extremities ... you could get bitten!

Thus polity is plain dangerous as screwing about with mankind ... some smart intellect that's out of 'ere ... sometimes there is fallout tho' ... the depression of shamayim? Some say this is shamanic panic ... at that instant when you feel your thoughts erupting as DNA in the valle ... hallah! Or that a' Loo Yah ... in the following up ... demonic sprouts?

 

[Luce NDs]

What's ought ... that's what's not ... and thus what comes from mixing phlogistons ... as naughty fertile compilations in gooey I'z!

In a spruced up tree this can be bitchy if the cut isn't just right ... so be sharp eh!