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GordW

GordW

Church-Geek-Oramus
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I just scanned the first few pages on the MArk thread and was intrigued by one thing that was not discussed (unless I missed it).

In Mark 1:16-20 we have teh call of the first disciples. What has always struck me about this call story (both as Matthew and Mark tell it as they are almost identical) is the immediacy of the response. AS Mark tells the story we have no reason to believe Andrew Peter James and John know anything about this fellow who walks along the shore and say "Follow Me" and yet they immediately jump up and do so.

Why would they do that?

Would you?
 
GordW said:
I just scanned the first few pages on the MArk thread and was intrigued by one thing that was not discussed (unless I missed it).

In Mark 1:16-20 we have teh call of the first disciples. What has always struck me about this call story (both as Matthew and Mark tell it as they are almost identical) is the immediacy of the response. AS Mark tells the story we have no reason to believe Andrew Peter James and John know anything about this fellow who walks along the shore and say "Follow Me" and yet they immediately jump up and do so.

Why would they do that?

Would you?
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It's God coming into contact through God's word that I believe brings change about.

God came into contact with these men through Jesus, God's word made flesh, and they followed Jesus.

When God came into contact with me through God's word, I was born from above.
 
There was very little discussion on either the Matthew or the Mark thread about the call of the first four disciples.

One person (yours truly) speculated that Jesus must have been a very charismatic leader. Somehow, I think He must have offered the disciples hope that life could be richer or deeper than what they were experiencing. Their existence which consisted of fishing on the sea and mending nets must have been terrifying at times and tedious at others.
 
GordW ----unsafe asks ----In your view why did they follow Jesus so easily and quickly without Question -----
 
Gord, the answer to your question is that Peter and his brother Andrew had previously experienced a life-changing encounter with Jesus shortly after His baptism. Andrew had been one of John the Baptist's disciples. Convinced that Jesus was the Messiah, Andrew then seeks out his brother Peter and brings him to Jesus, where he is given his famous nickname "Cephas" or "Rock" (see John 1:35-42).
 
Mystic said:
Gord, the answer to your question is that Peter and his brother Andrew had previously experienced a life-changing encounter with Jesus shortly after His baptism. Andrew had been one of John the Baptist's disciples. Convinced that Jesus was the Messiah, Andrew then seeks out his brother Peter and brings him to Jesus, where he is given his famous nickname "Cephas" or "Rock" (see John 1:35-42).
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Not as Mark tells the story, nor Matthew for that matter. I am not a big fan of trying to combine the Gospels to fillin the blanks.
 
Gord, you ask a question unanswered by Mark, but given a plausible answer by John. It seems absurd for you to ask the question, if you disregard evidence from other Gospels that provides answers. What the Hell kind of answer were you hoping for from us--that Peter, James, and John were simply so mesmerized by Jesus that they deserted their nets without question or delay? C'mon, get real! Cambridge NT scholar C. H. Dodd made a meticulous examination of the historical reliability of the Synoptic Gospels in comparison with the Fourth Gospel and found that the Fourth Gospel has an even higher claim to historical accuracy.
 
You know, the "follow me" depends on a lot on what you have to lose as well as the invitation.

Have you ever all been talking about something, but, one person takes the initiative and makes the invitation, and start the process, and so you end up going coz hey it sounds like a good idea.

without that initiative, you may not have gone.

In addition, you generally would also need to not have plans.

So, a combination of knowing who to ask, and also doing the ask, and you get a good response.
 
I question the validity of using later traditions to explain earlier ones. I believe we're working through Mark in the spirit that it is a stand-alone gospel, but also, that it was the first written gospel, relatively contemporaneous with the bulk of Paul's "real letters" more or less (within a decade, possibly pre-destruction of Jerusalem/temple).
 
We might also be facing economic pressures here, that we're not looking at. We're nearing the end of a long adjustment from hunter-gatherer to agriculture. Land is owned, divided, shared. But the 'sea' and its contents? No controls. Are these people who have been pushed from their land onto the sea? Is there some beginning attempts by early governments at commercialization of the sea, as well as the land?
 
Pinga said:
You know, the "follow me" depends on a lot on what you have to lose as well as the invitation.

Have you ever all been talking about something, but, one person takes the initiative and makes the invitation, and start the process, and so you end up going coz hey it sounds like a good idea.

without that initiative, you may not have gone.

In addition, you generally would also need to not have plans.

So, a combination of knowing who to ask, and also doing the ask, and you get a good response.
Click to expand...

Our starting to follow Christ doesn't sound like the rosiest of invitations. We surrender our very identities when we are born from above. Jesus called these men away from their comfortable lives to live new ones filled with peril.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I question the validity of using later traditions to explain earlier ones. I believe we're working through Mark in the spirit that it is a stand-alone gospel, but also, that it was the first written gospel, relatively contemporaneous with the bulk of Paul's "real letters" more or less (within a decade, possibly pre-destruction of Jerusalem/temple).
Click to expand...

You have a simplistic and flawed view of the process of Gospel formation. Modern NT scholarship examines all 4 Gospels for evidence about Jesus' words, deeds, experiences, and teaching. That is because all 4 Gospels use much earlier sources. Mark uses an earlier miracle story collection, a controversy story collection, and a Passion narrative. John uses an earliIer signs source, an oral sayings tradition, and a Passion narrative, plus the eyewitness testimony of the Beloved Disciple, whoever he is. True, in its final form, John is later than Mark. But the same cannot confidently be said for their respective sources. Cambridge NT scholar C. H. Dodd wrote a classic book on this issue, "The History and Tradition of the Fourth Gospel" and he demonstrates in great detail that, where Mark and John share overlapping traditions, John usually displays greater accuracy in historical and geographic details.

In any case, it is giggle-worthy for Gord to exclude problem-solving insights from another Gospel that make sense in favor of blind imaginative speculation from site members who are not trained in Gospel criticism and have no basis for solving Gospel issues without consulting other Gospels.
 
GordW ----your quote ------Not as Mark tells the story, nor Matthew for that matter. I am not a big fan of trying to combine the Gospels to fillin the blanks.

unsafe says -----Big cop out statement here GordW ------so what is your view on why the Disciples followed Jesus so readily ???

The fact is John the Baptise came to prepare the way for Jesus and many heard John Preach -----so to say you don't fill in the Blanks with combining the Gospels is hindering your understanding there GordW ---

John 1:35-39 (NIV)
John’s Disciples Follow Jesus
 
The issue of conflating the gospels has come up on the Mark thread as well.

We have also seen conflation of a gospel lesson with an epistle.
 
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