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Would Christianity Exist If.........

Discussion in 'Religion and Faith' started by PilgrimsProgress, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. PilgrimsProgress

    PilgrimsProgress Well-Known Member

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    Jesus hadn't been crucified and the resurrection hadn't occurred?

    A bit of background. Despite the fact that I've had no religious training, I'm now asked by the two ministers at the mission church to give sermons when they're absent for various reasons.
    I'm gobsmacked by their trust in me - the only requirement being that I give the congregation a message of hope.
    I'm given the Bible readings - but have decided just to concentrate on the gospels - as I haven't studied religious history.

    For a sermon coming up in January I wish to show the congregation that Jesus chose 'ordinary" folk - just like them - to be his disciples. These disciples -like those in the congregation - had flaws, but Jesus saw their potential (even if they exasperated him at times).
    I then go on to Judas - the disciple that arguably had the worst flaw in that he betrayed Jesus -and that led to the crucifixion.
    I then leave them with a hypothetical question. Like all hypothetical questions in one sense it doesn't matter, but I ask them, in their opinion, would Christianity exist if Jesus lived out his days and there was no crucifixion or resurrection?

    What would your answer be? Why?
     
  2. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

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    Arguably?!


    My answer would be that Christianity would not exist. To be Christians means that we are little Christs. We can only be that when the Spirit of God indwells us, and that was made possible through the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. It is only through the crucifixion and resurrection that we can enjoy friendship with God and live participating in the missio Dei.
     
    airclean33 likes this.
  3. Luce NDs

    Luce NDs Well-Known Member

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    Christ was conjured up in the darkness as a spark ... by two unknowns pulling a Dei lie ... thus the Eastern orthodox soup made from hogwart ... a form of primitive Cell Rae ... celery? Like all things physical too much is toxic ... and with enough of life it is time to move on as life in generally ridiculous and not as sublime as the inner sparkies ... on shoul know some alien information ... foreign intelligence, shared ... Sharon is good ... try another ... a snow flower could spring up ... crow cuss? Hopi's cussed by European invasive species ... tis empiric ... not a formula for balance .. expect reactions ...

    I'm really avisi*tor ... many would exclude me for thoughts and weaker wiles ... I recede ... like Moses ... Muses are not appreciated in the dimension of will and gravitas ... up-standings ... that's ET ... out'a here now ... not common as heathens ... only Johns to be (ineffable) ...

    Thus we don't know ... hoo edged hoem ...
     
  4. Seeler

    Seeler Well-Known Member

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    I doubt if we would call it Christianity, and we probably wouldn't refer to Jesus as 'Christ' if he had chosen not to go to Jerusalem for the passover but continued to live in the villages and hill country of Galilee - appearing unannounced in the village square to teach and heal and offer comfort or hope, and then, just when word was getting out, moving on again to another place. He probably could have lived a normal lifespan in that manner, without arousing authorities enough that they would go to the effort to seek him out to crucify him risking the anger of his followers and the unrest that might follow. He would have had a small band of followers who saw the light of God within him and who caught that light (Spirit). It would remain with them after his death, and possibly they might continue his mission, preaching and healing and revering his memory until they formed a religious group (within or separate from Judiasm).
     
    PilgrimsProgress likes this.
  5. chansen

    chansen Pleasant Enough

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    That's like asking if Mormonism would exist if Joseph Smith never found the golden plates and the seer stones to translate them with.
     
  6. dreamerman

    dreamerman Well-Known Member

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    I think Christianity would still exist if Jesus hadn't been been crucified and the resurrection hadn't occurred because I believe somewhere someone would have made these claims up especially the resurrection part. :whistle:
     
    chansen likes this.
  7. Mendalla

    Mendalla A Node in the Interdependent Web

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    Without the Resurrection, Jesus is just another 1st century AD messianic pretender. Whether it was a myth that took hold or really happened, it is what defines Christianity and makes it something other than a minor Jewish sect. Even with the Resurrection, it is sometimes hard to see what really differentiates Jesus from other mystery cult figures like Orpheus and Mithras, who also went through a death and resurrection cycles of a sort.
     
    PilgrimsProgress likes this.
  8. Luce NDs

    Luce NDs Well-Known Member

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    When delight of knowledge is put down .. there will be rabid reactions ... at some tier or level ... possibly not where the authorities wanted it ... unless only for distraction from the virtual Cos vestiges still hanging to them emerging?
     
  9. Neo

    Neo Wonder worker

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    ‘Twas the season for a revelation 2,000 years ago. I find it hard to speculate what would’ve happened without that betrayal by Judas. Could it be that Judas played his part as designed? It wasn’t the most popular part to play but nevertheless it was pivotal to the story.
     
    Carolla likes this.
  10. Luce NDs

    Luce NDs Well-Known Member

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    We decided brute force was best and thus Romanticism about dying soldiers ...
     
  11. unsafe

    unsafe Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion ---Christianity is a man made Religion -----So if Jesus hadn't come as God says in His word and if Jesus hadn't died and been resurrected as God's word says -----then God's word would be nothing but lies and have no value to anyone as God's word not Christianity says what is written is Truth -----Christianity the Religion is farce ---it is like all other Religions of this world ---self driven and self motivated telling the congregation that as long as your a good person and help others on your own you will be accepted by God -----all you have to do is come to church every Sunday ---help out in the church when needed ---sit on a committee ---serve in the soup kitchen ---etc and God will have a spot in Heaven for you ----

    Note -----unsafe says -------------going to church and helping is all good to do but it won't get you into heaven by itself


    This type of religion that feels that all people will go to Heaven in the end ----is really called ----Universalism not Christianity in my view --so we are trying to mix 2 religions together and God hates mixture according to scripture -----

    Universalism
    /ˌjuːnɪˈvɜːsəˌlɪzəm/
    noun
    1.
    a system of religious beliefs maintaining that all men are predestined for salvation
     
    airclean33 likes this.
  12. Luce NDs

    Luce NDs Well-Known Member

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    Is religious power of man-maid things mortal and no where near as keeping as immortal?

    Thus mistakes must be repeated for learning ...
     
  13. chansen

    chansen Pleasant Enough

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    unsafe, what you're arguing for is Christian Exceptionalism. It's just like, and very much tied to, American Exceptionalism. "We're great, you're not, we get rewarded, you get punished."

    The whole idea is self-defeating. It's Exceptionalism by Insistence. If you need to think of yourself or your beliefs as superior to everyone else's, without an ounce of evidence in your corner, then they're not.

    History is filled with arrogant jerks who thought they were exceptional. Even the bible tries to teach you what happens to them.
     
  14. revjohn

    revjohn Well-Known Member

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    Possibly though it would likely be different from what we believe Christianity to be today.

    Had Jesus had more than three years (roughly) to teach his system of thought it likely would have accumulated more followers. Certainly, his leadership was considered fairly charismatic and it did bring him into contention with the Temple leadership. Could he have likewise challenged Roman leadership without drawing their attention or ire?

    Hard to say.

    He certainly would have challenged their religious convictions (as he did with some Jewish convictions) about what God does or does not want.

    Apart from that the kind of leadership he offered and the teachings he shared publicly really don't change adherents into poor citizens.
     
  15. unsafe

    unsafe Well-Known Member

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    PilgrimsProgress------your quote ------For a sermon coming up in January I wish to show the congregation that Jesus chose 'ordinary" folk - just like them - to be his disciples. These disciples -like those in the congregation - had flaws, but Jesus saw their potential (even if they exasperated him at times).

    I would do some research on this if I were you before you preach on this -----you don't want to miss inform your people ------

    These people were chosen ---called and compelled by God's power to follow Jesus -----God has a reason for who He chose -----they were just regular folks with flaws true ---but their was a compelling force behind them leaving their livelihood and families behind and follow Jesus -----God saw their heart already knew who to call -----

    The rich young ruler approached Jesus to follow Him and he was not chosen ------Why ----could be he was Not called by God ---God saw his heart and it was not in the right place ----

    unsafe says
    Did Jesus really see their potential ?---was He really interested in their potential ---I don't think so ------He was interested in where their heart was not where their potential was -----

    If your going to Preach to a Church you should make sure you are steering them in the right direction for their eternal home ----there is a lot of responsibility in Preaching the truth ----
     
  16. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

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    In what Christian church(es) did you hear that message proclaimed unsafe? I've never heard that preached or taught in any of the Christian churches I've been in - and that includes United churches, Anglican churches, Non-denominational churches, Nazarene churches, Baptist churches, and beyond.
     
  17. crazyheart

    crazyheart tomorrow,tomorrow

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    Certainly, his leadership was considered fairly charismatic and it did bring him into contention with the Temple leadership. re: RevJohn.

    I always acquaint charismatic with movement, loud, and extreme.

    Jesus seems to be portrayed as quiet spoken, quiet moving, and

    except for a few instances(in the temple throwing out the money changers,

    raising his voice a few time in anger, I would not call his ministry charismatic.

    Appreciate what you all think.
     
  18. chansen

    chansen Pleasant Enough

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    Is there an arrogance threshold that Pilgrims needs to meet? How do we measure it? If we need to design a system of measurement for arrogance, we get to name the units. Clearly, let's make the units "unsafes". Water boils at 100C, so let's make the threshold for proper preaching 100 unsafes, or better yet, 100usf.

    Here is the rough scale I propose:

    0usf - Not exceptional. Boring. Completely reality-based. Blah.
    10usf - Mildly exceptional, though no outward signs visible
    20usf - Slight smirking
    30usf - Bemused appearance when someone brings up facts
    40usf - The ability to look down on someone even when shorter than them
    50usf - Disdainful laughing
    60usf - Fox News viewer
    70usf - Enjoys movies like "Left Behind"
    80usf - Reality and grammar leave the room together
    90usf - blackbelt
    100usf - Ready to preach according to unsafe
     
  19. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

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    What preachers do you particularly enjoy listening to unsafe? What do you believe the eternal home of Christians is?
     
  20. Waterfall

    Waterfall Well-Known Member

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    Had Jesus not died and risen, I think we would be paying more attention to building God's Kingdom here on earth rather than putting too much emphasis of our faith on a miracle and virgin births....didn't Jesus say miracles and signs are necessary for unbelievers? There might then be less importance placed on "worshiping" Jesus and more on following the message of Jesus. The message itself is strong enough to endure for those who seek it.
    If He had lived a long life He would have seen much turmoil happening, endured more criticism and actually may have met the Apostle Paul....which would have been extremely interesting to me for so many reasons.
     

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