Suicide God & Hope

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PilgrimsProgress said:
I don't see it as a matter of who is right, Anthony or Val Wilmer.....
Both men are in need of our empathy. Anthony for finding his life unliveable, and Val for feeling anger at someone who chose to end his life , when, he (Val) had had to fight so hard to save his.

Suicide is the elephant in the room when it comes to suffering depression. Every episode can put you in such a dark place, that there is the fear that you won't get out of it. Nobody with depression wants to die - it's more a case of finding living unbearable.

That's why sufferers of depression - like me - are taught by therapists to have a "go to" plan when the black dog bites. You ring your therapist/psychiatrist who usually instructs you to increase your medication and your therapy visits.. I go for walks that are physically strenuous or I garden. (Being physically challenged seems to help). I cry a lot when depressed - so I tend to want to stay indoors - but I've learnt that only makes me worse. So I ring up a couple of close friends, tell them I'm not well, and arrange a visit - knowing that they both understand and care for me.
Now, this bit may shock you..... When you live alone, are getting on in years, you no longer have your partner, nobody lets you know that you're valued and loved much. When I'm depressed I feel worthless, useless and unloved. So I have found the quickest way to get over a depressive episode is to tell others that's how I'm feeling - and, if they can, would they say to me that they care and value me?
I would never have done this once - my pride would have prevented me doing so. But, here's the thing, a depressive episode outweighs pride.

A depressive episode is the worst thing you can experience - it's far, far worse than grief. With grief you still feel a sense of connection - connection to the one who has died, and connected to those who mourn with you.

Depression is about disconnection -trapped in your own painful world.
Thus, the way out of a depressive episode is to find the courage to open yourself up to others - as this is the surest way to re-establish connection.
A shift of focus is required. A shift that involves leaving your own disturbed feelings and thoughts and opening up to others.

Another thing that helps me -along the same lines - is being there for others.
After all, getting back to where I began, empathy for others that are doing it tough, is easily understood by those of us who find life difficult at times.
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Thank you for sharing your experience , I feel for you and God loves you
 
Kimmio said:
In my experience sometimes depression can be triggered by grief and it can be difficult to tell where the grief ends and the depression starts. Sometimes un-processed, denied grief can turn into depression and/ or crisis. Perhaps, that's why I think the loved ones also need a chance to express their own feelings and receive empathy - and anger is normal in grieving. And surely, grief only compounds an already depressed person's depression. In my experience they are not totally different. Depression is like heavy grief for all the cumulative losses in life, stubborn grief that won't resolve, won't let up without a fight.

Either way, talking to someone, getting proper help, is very important.
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Un-processed, denied grief is sometimes termed reactive depression. The key to the difference between the "normal" grieving process, and reactive depression brought about by grieving, is the feeling of being isolated and disconnected in your grieving. (ie whether you can reach out to others for support, and appreciate their company.) I've experienced both depression and grief, and all I can say is that or me they differ.
 
I think there are probably different emotional factors involved with suicide, for those left behind, because - I can understand - it might feel like an abandonment, a very final one, moreso than if someone dies from a terminal illness that cannot be cured or slowed significantly. And more self blame from the loved ones left behind....maybe they are angry at themselves (wish we didn’t have that disagreement last we spoke etc.), blaming themselves, and angry at the person who died for not accepting help, etc. vs. knowing your loved one’s death couldn’t be stopped, and that they wouldn’t leave you if there was any choice.
 
I think the people still here and hurting are best served by empathy, now...because they may be hurting, or prone to pain, as much as Mr. Bourdain was. Getting mad at Val Kilmer for grieving the loss of his friend, which includes anger...is not going to bring Anthony back. I think, through understanding the heavy pain of those left behind...we can also empathize with those who end their own lives prematurely - what they are/ were feeling may not be all that different - and hopefully intervene in the cycle of grief and depression that, I think, is touching the whole world in various ways these days. It’s all human suffering. I think it’s all connected.
 
PilgrimsProgress said:
Un-processed, denied grief is sometimes termed reactive depression. The key to the difference between the "normal" grieving process, and reactive depression brought about by grieving, is the feeling of being isolated and disconnected in your grieving. (ie whether you can reach out to others for support, and appreciate their company.) I've experienced both depression and grief, and all I can say is that or me they differ.
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I would have to say what the reason for the grief is though. If it's someone else dying, I think it's fairly normal to be connected with others during that process. When it's something more individualized though - even when there is support it's not the same in terms of being connected and often there is a sense of isolation. I would argue both are normal grieving processes.
 
Several years ago...My grief when one of my best friends died of a heart attack, while I had put off going to visit her and her new baby in the States, because of my own issues, came as a shock...and her family only told me when I called them about a month after she died because I couldn’t reach her at her phone number. I was a mixed bag of anger and sadness...and upset with myself...my then boyfriend and I broke up for awhile...we got back together only after I was strong again. He couldn’t handle that I couldn’t get over it in a few weeks time. It was bringing him down. I figured that was my fault, too, for being so weak. That compounded it more. I missed work, which interfered with paying my bills, which compounded it more. I didn’t have anyone around me who also knew her. I didn’t have anyone around that cared much that my partner/ who was my other best friend, left. I didn’t have money to go out and do things with people. I went to counselling. I have to say that in that time I really couldn’t tell you what was grief and what was depression...and there was a lot of self-blame happening, too.
 
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Same sort of thing in the couple of years before my husband left. We both had gone through a lot of losses...me: deaths in the family, illness, some decline in mobility...him: job loss, illness on top of illness, and family far away, with illness and financial hardship. Not much family support or connection from my side. Both of us, financial hardship/ loss. Then, he left. He wasn't all that well when he left. I both understood his pain and was angry at the same time for him leaving, for not getting counselling help together first, and being left with all our practical problems to boot. I'm not angry anymore, the picture is clearer now as to all the factors in the breakdown(s), but I sure was. And I really don't know where the difinitive line between grief and depression was throughout that time either. I did get help...and since the doctor deals with symptoms, and the symptoms look pretty indecipherable...I was given antidepressants, which do help...but they are not the whole answer for me either. If anything, making new friends at my church has helped the most.
 
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blackbelt1961 said:
Thank you for sharing your experience , I feel for you and God loves you
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If God is everything … is something missing in the message? Archimedes saw there was something missing in the float … he stated that animals and gods represented extreme rapture … they tear off … race into isolation!

There are imp lick a' shines! Dark streaks ...
 
Inannawhimsey said:
What I want to know is:

who is/are the Suicide Deities?
(r they related to the excellent Suicide Kings?)
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You may encounter them at the end of the tunnel, tube or other pipings …

What causes all the dissociation? Regarding isolationism … are we our own worst enemy?

Thus Pogo's swamp metaphor … loaded with crock d' isles!
 
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Hi,
blackbelt1961 said:
Suicide God & Hope
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My brother, Rudy, struggled with many things while he lived. He found peace by putting an end to his life. Which left each of us struggling to maintain our own peace. I was asked to speak at his funeral.

My start point was a parable told by Jesus. The one about a sower who sowed good seed and another who came in the night sowing bad seed. The two to be left growing together until the day of harvest.

I went on by remembering Rudy’s character. The goodness, gentleness and kindness in him. Also the shadow side we all knew well. The patterns of doubt, discouragement and despair. Suggesting that this dichotomy reflected good seed and bad seed growing side by side

From there I shifted the emphasis by speaking of a farmer harvesting his fields. Seperating the wheat from the chaff. Taking the wheat into the grainery. Plowing under the chaff.

I next asked whether God was less intelligent than a farmer. Suggesting that for me this was not possible. Going on to say that all the good in Rudy had been gathered into God’s grainery as a farmer gathers seed at harvest. The remainder being plowed under.

My ending suggested that all the good that we had known in Rudy was now with God. All that deeply troubled him was cast away. Encouraging each to live in hope rooted deep in the realization that the good that lives in each can not be lost. And, that the darkness in each had no future.

My memories of Rudy are all good.

George
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,
My brother, Rudy, struggled with many things while he lived. He found peace by putting an end to his life. Which left each of us struggling to maintain our own peace. I was asked to speak at his funeral.

My start point was a parable told by Jesus. The one about a sower who sowed good seed and another who came in the night sowing bad seed. The two to be left growing together until the day of harvest.

I went on by remembering Rudy’s character. The goodness, gentleness and kindness in him. Also the shadow side we all knew well. The patterns of doubt, discouragement and despair. Suggesting that this dichotomy reflected good seed and bad seed growing side by side

From there I shifted the emphasis by speaking of a farmer harvesting his fields. Seperating the wheat from the chaff. Taking the wheat into the grainery. Plowing under the chaff.

I next asked whether God was less intelligent than a farmer. Suggesting that for me this was not possible. Going on to say that all the good in Rudy had been gathered into God’s grainery as a farmer gathers seed at harvest. The remainder being plowed under.

My ending suggested that all the good that we had known in Rudy was now with God. All that deeply troubled him was cast away. Encouraging each to live in hope rooted deep in the realization that the good that lives in each can not be lost. And, that the darkness in each had no future.

My memories of Rudy are all good.

George
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Thank you for sharing, in my family we still struggle and grasp at straws as to what could have, should have , might have been done to save my brother, he lost the battle , but when we look back , we did everything we could, sometimes I look at his pictures and wonder what was he thinking deep inside.

Another family member tried taking there life too and almost succeeded, needless to say its left me and my family with PTSD over the event.

Last week before I posted this thread I was in a land developers meeting with a major builder here in Toronto, and one of the woman in the meeting who is an urban planer brought up the subject of suicide because another much smaller builder she knows and is close with , there son just took his life, I just sat and listened. She proceeded to say she didn't go to the funeral because in her words " I dont believe in that s**t" . so she refused to go.

It really hit a nerve with me and was ready to blast her right there, but that little voice in my head, keep talking , be still, so I did. Twenty eight yrs I have done business with this woman and I have always liked her because of her intelligence and character , now all of a sudden she has left a sour taste in my mouth.

The more I live, the more i see , the more I thank God for Jesus works, for all our atrocities and evils we commit , big or small, in spirit or in flesh . And though I don't understand all that Jesus taught , I'm just glad that He came and Did, that He Gives Hope to all the sick, rich or poor, in good or bad health, mentally sound or not .

any how thats my morning rant Geo , thank you for your Post
 
Hi,
blackbelt1961 said:
Thank you for sharing, in my family we still struggle and grasp at straws as to what could have, should have , might have been done to save my brother,
Click to expand...
I had learned an important life lesson some years prior to Rudy’s passing. It seems that the devil always steals twice. First he takes someone or something precious. Then he takes away our peace. I have seen whole families fractured and broken by the experience of suicide. I am much encouraged by these historic words: “Resist the devil and he will run from you.”

George
 
I'm an advocate for those of us who battle with a mental illness -and here is a mini-talk I've given on the subject for those who have a family member or friend who has a depressive illness. The more we speak up to remove the stigma of mental illness, the easier it will be for sufferers to seek help.......


"What Can I Do To Help?"


This month is mental health Month, and, as someone who has a major depressive illness, I’d like to share with you some thoughts on a question I’m often asked.

The question being, "What can I do to help you?"

One in five Australians suffer from some form of mental illness. It might be you, or it could be a close relative or a friend.

So it’s an important question…….."What can I do to help?"

Patients and carers alike know the standard responses – exercise, eat healthily, take prescribed medication, be aware of your triggers etc…….

These are all important, but today, for the next few minutes, I’d like to talk about something that is rarely talked about, – and it’s my response to the question, "What can I do to help?"

I can’t talk for those with other psychiatric conditions, but I do know what’s it’s like to live with a major depressive illness.

I experience it as a scene from one of those old cowboy movies. You’re like one of the Indians riding flat out on a galloping horse. Then an incident occurs, and the next moment you find yourself on the back of another galloping horse – but this time it’s a horse that threatens to throw you from the saddle.

Life with depression means you’re forever changing horses –often with little warning. At times you’re also not even sure of which horse you’re riding –and need others to tell you.

It’s a life filled with negativity. Feelings of inadequacy, guilt, and self-loathing are constant.

More often than not, you’re cut off from any strengths and competency that others may see in you.

So, what is the one thing you can do to help someone with a mental illness?

It’s this – give US an opportunity to show you OUR strengths and Our skills.

Encourage us not to see ourselves as helpless victims – point out our strengths in those moments of wellness – when we’re riding the healthy horse.

Now, I know in an acute state that isn’t possible, then we need your strength –often just to function.

I’ve often reflected on the debt of gratitude I owe family, friends, and those many wonderful folk who work in the difficult field of mental health, who have supported me in those times when I was incapable of functioning on a day to day basis.

Particularly so, when I know from my own experience that we are often very difficult people to extend love and compassion to in times of acute illness. The disturbance inside us - is all too often displayed in the disturbance we cause around us –particularly with those that love us the most……

But, we do have times of mental health, times when we function well.

We HAVE a mental illness – but we are much, much more than our illness.

So, to answer the question, "What can I do to help?"

It’s this….

The truth is there is strength and empowerment in helping others. You know it, and we need to experience it, too. Don’t deny us the pleasure of being the helper sometimes – let US help YOU in ways we’re capable of.

Something those that are free from mental illness don’t seem to understand, is that the more you do for us, often the more helpless and inadequate we feel. Many of us with a mental illness have a poor self-image, and being in a position to help others is often the best antidote to feeling worthless.

You know YOUR strengths, help us to discover and nurture OURS……

Thank you.
 
I currently take 2 of the drugs on this list. One is supposed to help with depression, and I was considering seeing my doctor about upping the dose or changing to a different one (several others are on the list too)??? A family member pointed out my weight gain, which I notice too, since I have been taking it. That doesn’t make me feel more confident. I am not suicidal, because of reasons stated above. But there are days when I wonder if the drugs are or are not helping...or making me feel worse in some ways. Note: I am only expressing my personal concern and am not saying people should not talked antidepressants.

Depression and suicide risk are side effects of more than 200 common drugs
 
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