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Should someone get fired over behaviour outside of his job?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mrs.Anteater, May 10, 2018.

  1. Mrs.Anteater

    Mrs.Anteater no anteater, but German wild boar

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    Awoman got fired from a car dealership because of racist behaviour in a restaurant while drunk which went viral.
    It doesn’t say what her job was. Should a company be allowed to do that because of it “ reputation”?
    If it hadn’t gone viral, hardly anybody would know.
    It sounds like this person has mental health issues that caused the outbreak. Possibly it was a good occasion for her employer to get rid of someone who has had some issues in the past.
    But- technically, I don’t think it’s right. It didn’t happen at work. And if she isn’t in customer service, it also doesn’t affect work other than she might not be well liked.
     
    Inannawhimsey likes this.
  2. Mrs.Anteater

    Mrs.Anteater no anteater, but German wild boar

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  3. Luce NDs

    Luce NDs Well-Known Member

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    All corruption should be secret so the general population won't know the badness hidden in the human race ...

    Only good is allowed ... and thus we fall because of what we don't know ... in case that you didn't gnoe ... the Gnostic traits ... of questioning strange items ... even in behaviour!
     
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  4. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

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    In general, what someone does outside of work should not be grounds for being fired. I say "in general" because some people do have agreements with their employer they must abide by.

    What could be the grounds for dismissal would be if their job gets affected by what they do outside of it. If this woman was a salesperson, let's say, and her sales drop off, the loss in sales could be reasonable grounds for her being fired.
     
  5. Luce NDs

    Luce NDs Well-Known Member

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    Like a card game ... keep you face down in light of what was done beyond the place of interest ... business thus slips in awful behaviouralists ... they are bad in one area of another ... thus the search is on for goodness and utopia ... as something no here and now!

    Then there are the protocol-ist ... people that ignore what really happens ... because it is beyond their imagination ... this being an abstract logos ... icon as destroyed by mortals ... iconoclast!
     
  6. Lastpointe

    Lastpointe Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of examples of poor behaviour causing job loss. Often they are professional standard type things but other times just poor behaviour that becomes public

    While the person may think it unfair, companies rely on reputation

    It seems like people are unaware that behaviour matters but it does
     
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  7. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    If that video had been viewed before she got the job, I doubt she would have been hired.
     
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  8. revsdd

    revsdd This place is hilarious sometimes. Enjoy.

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    I have no problem with people being fired for behaviour outside their job. Like it or not, when you're an employee your actions do represent your employer. That's important to remember in this day when everything gets reported online. What does bother me is when people deliberately go back over years of Facebook posts or tweets or whatever just for the sake of finding something to smear a person with. I don't generally think you should be fired for something that you did or posted years ago - but in this case it literally happened that day and the car dealership has a right to say that they don't want to be represented in any way by someone who acts that way in public.

    And while I acknowledge that we don't have the full context of the video, I see no evidence at all that this woman had mental health issues - unless one considers being an ignorant racist to be a mental health problem. Here's my take on it. The woman has admitted she had been drinking. Now, I have had more than enough experience in both my own family of origin and in my work as a pastor with people who drink too much. When someone gets drunk and does or says something stupid or offensive, their knee jerk, go-to excuse is "I was drinking. That wasn't really me." In my experience, the way you act when you're drunk is actually a magnified and loosened up version of who you really are. I don't buy the "That wasn't really me."

    From what I've been able to discern, what happened is that this woman was sitting in a booth and in the adjoining booth, several men were speaking in a language that wasn't English. That was enough to set her off. I've heard it - from my own family members when growing up. "They should speak English. I don't have a clue what they're saying. They could be talking about me for all I know." I can remember people in the stands booing at baseball and hockey games in Toronto when a few lines of "O Canada" were sung in French. "Speak Canadian," was the message.

    I doubt the woman is mentally ill. This is just who she is.

    I applaud the men in the booth for the way they responded. They seemed to try to just carry on their conversation as best they could while the woman kept yelling at them, pointing fingers at them. At times they seemed to try to de-escalate by talking sense to her. (Which was never going to succeed, but kudos for trying.)

    It's a shame that they got kicked out of the restaurant along with her. I'd like to think that somebody who witnessed this horrendous incident tried to stand up for them.
     
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  9. Northwind

    Northwind Still knitting. Singing when I can.

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    In this case I think it was appropriate. She was working in a position where she was expected to be professional and her behaviour reflected badly on her employer as well. I would most certainly be fired if I behaved that way. I would possibly also fave consequences through my professional registering body.

    Those men handled the situation quite well considering. They should not have been kicked out of the restaurant unless there was more to the story that we don't know. While that is possible, I doubt they did anything that would warranted being kicked out. She most certainly should have been asked to leave before she was. There was a staff person there. I wonder why she was asked to leave right then. She was out of line.
     
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  10. Mendalla

    Mendalla Aspirant False Prophet

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    Agreed. Even for politicians, it sometimes seems unfair to be nailing them for a position they have changed or repudiated based on a Tweet from five years ago or whatever.

    Here in London, we have a PC candidate, Andrew Lawton, who is claiming mental health in response to the media and his opponents pulling up his history of homophobic, racist, and Islamophobic tweets, posts, and comments (he's a controversial local media personality so it's all public knowledge, nothing private or stolen). Some mental health advocates are arguing that using mental health to try to duck responsibility for such behaviour simply casts the mentally ill in a negative light. IOW, just apologize and stop trying to use mental health as an excuse.
     
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  11. revjohn

    revjohn Well-Known Member

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    Drive drunk and maybe you kill a family and spend the rest of your life never getting out from under that.

    Rant drunk and maybe you shoot yourself in the foot and spend some time having to climb out from underneath that.

    It seems that the most obvious thing is to not get drunk if you are inclined to drive or shoot your mouth off.

    Apart from that is our increasingly intolerant society is less just and more vengeful.
     
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  12. Northwind

    Northwind Still knitting. Singing when I can.

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    Sometimes it seems that way. I wonder though, if it really is more intolerant and less just, or if we have more platforms to express these views.

    People like this woman have always existed. Back in the day, she would have shot her mouth off and only those in the restaurant would have known. Now there is social media, and her tirade is broadcast widely.

    Racist/intolerant discussions used to be held around the kitchen table. Now, they're on public platforms where a larger circle of people can contribute.

    It is good to see so many people speaking out about this situation. It is also a good thing to discuss/consider.
     
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  13. ChemGal

    ChemGal One with keen eye

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    I don't think it should be an either/or thing, but I do think that with the internet and cameras accessible most places it is starting to get used for job disciplinary action too much IMO. I think some of the comments made in this article also bring up a good point - the videos are often only showing a portion of what happened. I don't think seeing more would justify what she said, but there are other situations where seeing more of what lead up to something could make a huge difference.
     
  14. Mrs.Anteater

    Mrs.Anteater no anteater, but German wild boar

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    Someone who thinks she is being talked about because someone looks at her twice and overreacts like that has clearly some mental health issues.
    I don’t remember seeing what kind of job she had at the car dealership. I definitely don’t agree with that she is representing the company unless she is the owner or a sales rep who has to be unbiased in treating the customers.
    If she is just sitting in the office doing payrole or she is washing cars, and hasn’t done anything like that on the job, I think an employer should only have a limited right to fire someone for things happening outside of work. Because, where do you want to draw the line? If they don’t like you running for a certain political party? If you are against abortion and demonstrate in front of the hospital? If you got into a fist fight? If you got a speeding ticket? If people talk about you because you are having an affair?
    What if the bosses friend felt insulted by you at a private party, but you didn’t know they were friends. Or someone on facebook accused you of something, without having proof.
     
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  15. Kimmio

    Kimmio This is my custom title

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    I think she should have a talking to by the boss, a warning that any hint of such behaviour toward customers and other staff will not be tolerated, and be required to attend a cross-cultural understanding/ human rights workshop - but no, not fired.
     
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  16. Kimmio

    Kimmio This is my custom title

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    @Mrs. Anteater maybe the boss or coworkers would be uncomfortable working with her. It's not just about customer service. Most workplaces are multiethnic.
     
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  17. Kimmio

    Kimmio This is my custom title

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    Okay. I just watched the video. I changed my mind. She should be fired. That was not an intolerant remark. That was a full on blatantly racist, disgusting display, and yes she was drunk but not beyond all self control.
     
  18. Northwind

    Northwind Still knitting. Singing when I can.

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    Generally I would agree with that. Another view is that her comments were so over the top and based on misinformation (at the least) that someone with brown speaking another language could be enough to set her off. She expressed the expectation that these men speak English in Canada and that they were not Canadian. I frankly doubt she would say that about a white person speaking another language, though maybe she would. I would say she is racist, not mentally ill.

    I agree, we don't know what job she had at the dealership. Still, Cranbrook is not a big place, and I imagine that dealership serves a significant percentage of the population. Once word gets out that is where she works, she does represent the dealership. In fact, the dealership got some flak for this. They responded quickly with damage control.

    This woman is going to have to walk the walk to regain some respect I imagine.
     
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  19. Kimmio

    Kimmio This is my custom title

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    I don't think she was mentally ill. To me she seemed angry, racist, and a bit tipsy.
     
  20. Kimmio

    Kimmio This is my custom title

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    Just imagine, if people are the targets of blantantly racist behaviour (and threatening behaviour) in public like that - what kind of silent discrimination they are subjected to on any given day. So, because they recorded it, they shone some light on real existing attitudes that need to change.
     

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