Suicide God & Hope

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Mendalla said:
Keep in mind that Pliny the Elder was a Roman pagan so wasn't talking about the Judaeo-Christian God, more God in the Aristotelian sense, and suicide was an acceptable out in some situations in that culture.
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Can the Judaeo-Christian God commit suicide?
 
Kimmio said:
It’s not clear that Val Kilmer has no idea of mental illness. In fact, it’s it’s more clear that he does. Maybe he knows it personally. Mental illness touches everyone in some way. It is clear that Val Kilmer loved his friend and is angry with him, right now, for leaving this world too soon.

Neither grief nor mental illness tend to behave reasonably all the time.

I’ve read as much support for Val, as I have criticism, on his twitter feed. Maybe people need to be reminded that they will leave a big hole in others lives if they are gone...as well as needing the empathy and care to get them past feeling suicidal for just a little longer...a day, a month a year. I think if Bourdain had reached out, Kilmer is exactly the sort of person who could’ve understood and helped him through it.
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Are you suggesting we're all touched?
 
monk said:
Saul(1 Samuel 31:4-5)
Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23)
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Correct. I was lazy. I was thinking only of the New Testament.

Same points are valid though - neither of those examples include any sense of moral judgement on either Saul or Ahithophel. They simply record the event.
 
If we could only look at this as a well rounded universal perspective like the abstract god's … then we are of demonstrable demo'racy … the place is anywhere from 5:1, 90% or 99 out of a 100 different than sane!

Just look about at our social responsibility in the light "c" of the view in from the dark ...
 
Seven Suicides in the Bible

1. [Abimelech] called hastily unto the young man his armour-bearer, and said unto him, Draw thy sword, and slay me, that men say not of me, A woman slew him. And his young man thrust him through, and he died (Judges 9:54).

2. And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed with all his might; and the house fell...upon all the people that were therein (Judges 16:30).

3. Saul took a sword and fell on it (1 Sam. 31:4).

4. When [Saul's] armour-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died (1 Sam 31:5).

5. When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he...got him home to his house, to his city, and put his house in order, and hanged himself, and died (2 Sam. 17:23).

6. It came to pass, when Zimri saw that the city was taken, that he went into the palace of the king's house, and burnt the king's house over him with fire, and died (1 Kings 16:18).

7. [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself (Matt. 27:5).

 
unsafe said:
Seven Suicides in the Bible

1. [Abimelech] called hastily unto the young man his armour-bearer, and said unto him, Draw thy sword, and slay me, that men say not of me, A woman slew him. And his young man thrust him through, and he died (Judges 9:54).

2. And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed with all his might; and the house fell...upon all the people that were therein (Judges 16:30).

3. Saul took a sword and fell on it (1 Sam. 31:4).

4. When [Saul's] armour-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died (1 Sam 31:5).

5. When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he...got him home to his house, to his city, and put his house in order, and hanged himself, and died (2 Sam. 17:23).

6. It came to pass, when Zimri saw that the city was taken, that he went into the palace of the king's house, and burnt the king's house over him with fire, and died (1 Kings 16:18).

7. [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself (Matt. 27:5).
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All based on escape from social responsibility … in the grief warp even when into negotiation … the po' spirit usually looses … getting only the dirt (earth) in the fall out!

Some high theatrics may be encountered … in an absolute beam … dark Ray … Rahab at the wall?

Moral: "Don't race on one way streets" … a spin off of the lessons of Asclepius versus Caduceus. What cuts the spirit of light could reflect on the luminosity of soul ... some graft may be required to get the glow to expand!

Thus the stem portion … from knights of senselessness … blind reason!

Isn't life a grand heresy … doing what we say is spiritually corrupting?

Tis OK if the folk don't understand what's a bit off … the smell of sects is sometimes like that … suicidal?
 
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Bible Verses on suicide
The Bible tells us murder is wrong... but what does it say about suicide? These Bible verses on suicide tell us that we should respect our bodies. We are God's creations, we shouldn't die before our time or forsake God's will just because things are tough.

So even though we face challenges, always seek out light and truth. Don't stray and consider dark things such as suicide. It is not in God's will. Treat your body as a temple!

Bible Verses on Suicide | Scripture on Suicide | Biblical Suicide
 
I don't see it as a matter of who is right, Anthony or Val Wilmer.....
Both men are in need of our empathy. Anthony for finding his life unliveable, and Val for feeling anger at someone who chose to end his life , when, he (Val) had had to fight so hard to save his.

Suicide is the elephant in the room when it comes to suffering depression. Every episode can put you in such a dark place, that there is the fear that you won't get out of it. Nobody with depression wants to die - it's more a case of finding living unbearable.

That's why sufferers of depression - like me - are taught by therapists to have a "go to" plan when the black dog bites. You ring your therapist/psychiatrist who usually instructs you to increase your medication and your therapy visits.. I go for walks that are physically strenuous or I garden. (Being physically challenged seems to help). I cry a lot when depressed - so I tend to want to stay indoors - but I've learnt that only makes me worse. So I ring up a couple of close friends, tell them I'm not well, and arrange a visit - knowing that they both understand and care for me.
Now, this bit may shock you..... When you live alone, are getting on in years, you no longer have your partner, nobody lets you know that you're valued and loved much. When I'm depressed I feel worthless, useless and unloved. So I have found the quickest way to get over a depressive episode is to tell others that's how I'm feeling - and, if they can, would they say to me that they care and value me?
I would never have done this once - my pride would have prevented me doing so. But, here's the thing, a depressive episode outweighs pride.

A depressive episode is the worst thing you can experience - it's far, far worse than grief. With grief you still feel a sense of connection - connection to the one who has died, and connected to those who mourn with you.

Depression is about disconnection -trapped in your own painful world.
Thus, the way out of a depressive episode is to find the courage to open yourself up to others - as this is the surest way to re-establish connection.
A shift of focus is required. A shift that involves leaving your own disturbed feelings and thoughts and opening up to others.

Another thing that helps me -along the same lines - is being there for others.
After all, getting back to where I began, empathy for others that are doing it tough, is easily understood by those of us who find life difficult at times.
 
In my experience sometimes depression can be triggered by grief and it can be difficult to tell where the grief ends and the depression starts. Sometimes un-processed, denied grief can turn into depression and/ or crisis. Perhaps, that's why I think the loved ones also need a chance to express their own feelings and receive empathy - and anger is normal in grieving. And surely, grief only compounds an already depressed person's depression. In my experience they are not totally different. Depression is like heavy grief for all the cumulative losses in life, stubborn grief that won't resolve, won't let up without a fight.

Either way, talking to someone, getting proper help, is very important.
 
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